Comments | bop_radar: BSG: Razor

bop_radar

BSG: Razor

Nov 01, 2007 21:13

I'm friendslocking this, at least until others have seen 'Razor'. This post is as spoilery as you can get. Seriously don't click if you don't want to know. ETA: unlocked now

( spoilery spoilery spoilers and much heavy thinky for Razor )

bsgseason3, bsg_meta

Comments 129

asta77 November 1 2007, 14:35:43 UTC

I can't read yet, but I'm printing it out to remind me to read and reply later. :)

bop_radar November 2 2007, 01:31:29 UTC

Yay! I am desperate to read your thoughts. I'm quite haunted by this one--so much to think about.

brokenmnemonic November 1 2007, 15:56:41 UTC

Thank you for this - it looks like I may be seeing Razor sooner than I intended, and now I can go in forewarned. I see what you mean by melodrama; RDM does seem to like to rush towards artificially generated shock moments, rather than letting things grow organically.

It sounds as if there's going to be plenty for the Lee-haters to seize on and vilify him over. I can also see a whole round of shredding again from the "Lee doesn't love or deserve Kara and her awesomeness" faction - all those who've never understood the idea that missions/duty could possibly come ahead of Kara if Lee really loved her, and will most likely cite Kara asking for a transfer before then later rushing off to get Anders as vindication of this.

It's going to be a long couple of years in fandom.

bop_radar November 1 2007, 18:44:21 UTC

If you'll feel more comfortable being forewarned then I am really glad I could help. D

plenty for the Lee-haters to seize on
There is but when is there not? And it was a great performance from Jamie. I am looking forward to the extended version just so I can see more of it--I also hope it turns out the 'rushed' feeling is because there was more to the whole comms-failure thing than 30 seconds of no contact. ;)

- all those who've never understood the idea that missions/duty could possibly come ahead of Kara if Lee really loved her
Right. Whereas I actually found this explored an incredibly deep bond between them. It's a very very dark reading but it seems like they trust each other to death. When Lee asked Kara to complete the mission she, well ok she DID flinch but you could see that there was never a second of not going to do it--it was a 'oh gods, he's really ordering this' flinch ( ... )

brokenmnemonic November 2 2007, 11:16:40 UTC

Thank you for the forewarning - I made sure I was doing something else at the same time as I watched, so that I could stay somewhat detached from it ( ... )

bop_radar November 2 2007, 12:08:52 UTC

I wasn't shocked with Lee's decision to nuke the station - I could see his reasoning behind it.
so could I but it came too fast to me--it just felt rushed. I felt like I could see Ron pressing the 'fast forward to melodrama' button, you know? I think it would have worked for me if there'd just been a beat or two more of them acknowledging the mission was lost. It's a personal thing.

I wasn't shocked that he ordered Kara to complete the mission - not only is that how the chain of command works, with her as the surviving officer, but it says a lot about Lee that he's strong enough to make the decision despite it being Kara
Oh totally. I was unshocked by it, though it was painful emotional territory. I found it very effective because it WAS so painful, if that makes sense. It should be. It's a hard area and it makes me feel like Lee really got to experience all the weight of command.

it says volumes about both that they both know why she's transferring and neither of them comments on it because they're pilots.
*nods* I agree.

This ( ... )

Thread 5

canadiangirl_86 November 1 2007, 17:05:10 UTC

Whoa, excellent review/discussion. You've touched on a lot of the same things I did but yours has a lot more depth than mine! I think you've really helped add even more to the ep for me, so thank you! I don't have time to comment extensively on this now but I will tonight!

Overall, though, I'm with you on the fact that it definitely helps me understand Lee more than I ever had before. Which is nice.

bop_radar November 2 2007, 00:40:48 UTC

Thanks Jo! I'm off to read your thoughts now. *excited* I'm really glad to hear it helped you understand Lee more.

sadface November 1 2007, 20:42:07 UTC

Was it worth watching? I have become curious. :|

bop_radar November 2 2007, 00:30:01 UTC

You are funny! Yes, it was. But it was REALLY dark and has freaked me out.

latteaddict November 1 2007, 23:27:51 UTC

I can't believe that Lee said 'you ever think you might deserve it?'

shall we add that to Lee's wanting to hold open the airlock for her?

Lee's such a charmer.

My take on Lee ordering Kara to stay behind is completely opposite to yours. To me the most logical person was Mathias. Lee knew Mathias from Galactica and she's a trustworthy officer. Kendra was XO, but Kara is the CAG and the best Viper pilot and one of the last legitimate flight instructors. Kara's value was much higher in pure military terms that Mathias. So personal feelings aside, Lee's choice of using Kara was completely wrong in my opinion. I have written why I think he chose Kara in my write-up which I'll be posting later.

I haven't given the Cain, Kendra arcs that much thought because I didn't really find their stories very compelling. It was just a rehash of what we already knew about Pegasus. The only new thing was that Cain was a Lesbian. Nothing to stop the presses for.

Pilots on the other hand have freaked me out.

bop_radar November 2 2007, 00:36:52 UTC

Sigh.

I was freaked out by Razor but for different reasons to you. I'll respond to your post as well but I'll say one thing here:

Lee knew Mathias from Galactica and she's a trustworthy officer.
There's a big difference between knowing someone's a good officer and knowing they would lay down their life if you asked them to. Lee had to be absolutely certain the person he chose would do that--the ONLY person he trusts that much is Kara. And I think he's right. It takes someone with an extreme degree of willpower and also a fatalistic streak, someone who is willing to accept this is the end of the line for them. I think the fact that Kara was going to do it makes Kara exceptional. Mathias may be trustworthy in all normal circumstances but we have no evidence that she's exceptional.

I see it as a very dark sign of how much Lee trusted and loved Kara that he chose her. It was only his closeness to her that allowed him to know she would do it.

latteaddict November 2 2007, 05:38:28 UTC

There's a big difference between knowing someone's a good officer and knowing they would lay down their life if you asked them to. Lee had to be absolutely certain the person he chose would do that--the ONLY person he trusts that much is Kara. And I think he's right. It takes someone with an extreme degree of willpower and also a fatalistic streak, someone who is willing to accept this is the end of the line for them. I think the fact that Kara was going to do it makes Kara exceptional. Mathias may be trustworthy in all normal circumstances but we have no evidence that she's exceptional.Which way are we dealing with this? Is the argument that Lee's choice was based on emotion and therefore Kara was his emotional choice to choose because, as you said, it's because he knows he can trust her to carry out his orders. Or is it about logical military choices? Because all the disagreements over the season three NC arc have been between how could Lee leave those people (and Kara) to die, versus Lee was making sound military decisions ( ... )

bop_radar November 2 2007, 06:59:18 UTC

Is the argument that Lee's choice was based on emotion and therefore Kara was his emotional choice to choose because, as you said, it's because he knows he can trust her to carry out his orders. Or is it about logical military choices?
It's a military decision based on all the evidence that Lee has to hand, including his personal assessment of the individuals. The reason for his decision is not emotional.

Kara is far too valuable a military asset to blow her up when wounded people or a marine can accomplish the exact same job
That can in theory, but the question is WILL they? You assume that any military officer would be willing to commit suicide for a superior officer. That's not the case. There's are a reason that kamikaze fighters and suicide bombers are trained separately from other troops--it takes a different psychology to be asked to go to that extreme in the name of service and duty. To wilfully destroy your own life is very different from dying under enemy fire. Can't you see that?

He trusted Kendra with his entire ( ... )

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