Comments | bop_radar: BSG: Razor

bop_radar

BSG: Razor

Nov 01, 2007 21:13

I'm friendslocking this, at least until others have seen 'Razor'. This post is as spoilery as you can get. Seriously don't click if you don't want to know. ETA: unlocked now

( spoilery spoilery spoilers and much heavy thinky for Razor )

bsgseason3, bsg_meta

Comments 129

canadiangirl_86 November 2 2007, 02:08:44 UTC

Her assertion is that you are the choices you make--that theme was explored on many levels in Razor and it's not easy to either dismiss or agree totally with her assessment.

Sigh. I have a feeling Lee would strongly agree with Kendra on this one, unfortunately for him. But maybe by Crossroads he finally felt like it was something he could change for himself, if he wanted to. He could choose to be the person he wants to be.

Anyone who thinks that was an easy decision for Lee to make is kidding themselves.

Completely agree. I think this may be one of the points that will get Lee attacked once everyone has seen Razor. He keeps his emotions so close to the chest that, unless you really get the character, you won't see the turmoil he's in.

I wasn't very happy with seeing Lee deciding to nuke the mission after they lost contact. I can see the tactical reasoning and in some ways I'm proud to see him having the guts to make it. However it was the one part of Razor that felt really forced to me.Yeah, I haven't decided yet what my take on ( ... )

bop_radar November 2 2007, 02:34:06 UTC

maybe by Crossroads he finally felt like it was something he could change for himself, if he wanted to. He could choose to be the person he wants to be.
Maybe... I'm pretty depressed for Lee right now, still digesting the fact that he's been carrying this added burden all this time. We know from Crossroads that he holds all these things on his conscience so tightly--his speech on the witness stand is testimony to that.

He keeps his emotions so close to the chest that, unless you really get the character, you won't see the turmoil he's in.
Yes, it was played very tightly but it was there. Jamie's performance was excellent, I felt. But it's going to be really easy for people NOT to see that. I do hope the extended version shows us more of his struggle--because I think that will be necessary for many fans.

it wasn't just about destroying this thing for the sake of Earth but also for the team itself. For Kara.Definitely! And it's also one that she would agree with--because we know she asks Anders to kill her rather than get taken to ( ... )

asta77 November 2 2007, 03:38:50 UTC

I have issues with the scene in which Lee orders the ship nuked and then Kara to stay behind, but the issues are with Adama and not Lee. I think you and others make excellent points as to why Lee chose Kara to stay behind and it was obviously a damn difficult decision, but one he had to make. You know I am NOT a Lee/Kara shipper, but it has always been obvious he does love her. He's also the Commander of the Pegasus and, as such, has to put the well being of the ENTIRE crew before one team or one person no matter who they are. I've already seen around LJ comments about Lee, once again, trying to get Kara killed. Sorry, but didn't she shoot him? And don't get me started on her flying hung over. Or putting Anders ahead of the fleet. These are both flawed people who have made bad choices or choices they felt were right, but turned out bad. Unlike Cain, their heart was always in the right place ( ... )

bop_radar November 2 2007, 04:14:51 UTC

. Sorry, but didn't she shoot him? And don't get me started on her flying hung over. Or putting Anders ahead of the fleet. These are both flawed people who have made bad choices or choices they felt were right, but turned out bad. Unlike Cain, their heart was always in the right place.
I completely agree. And his position as Commander of Pegasus demanded that he made that decision. Whereas the flaws you cite in Kara come more from accident or from recklessness or even wilful selfishness in the case of putting Anders ahead of the fleet. She's human though and as you say it puts her on a par with Lee--not all their decisions are good ones but they both have their hearts in the right place. There's miles of distance between them and Cain for all that Razor tried to show us the similarities.

n her quest for survival so they could regain the "luxury" of being human again, she all but destroyed their humanityShe did. I didn't buy that line at all. She wasn't 'human' to begin with and she wasn't ever going to be afterwards if she'd survived ( ... )

sadface November 2 2007, 23:22:24 UTC

Boppppy, ingrid_m is looking for people to talk about BSG with because she can't find any (http://ingrid-m.livejournal.com/608936.html?style=mine) but your posts are locked :( could you maybe friend her? UM. I DID NOT TELL HER I WAS SAYING ANYTHING SO YOU CAN JUST DELETE ME AND NO-ONE WILL EVER KNOW, OKAY? :D

bop_radar November 3 2007, 04:33:34 UTC

I too am looking for people to talk to about it! You really want me to delete you? You are so thoughtful!

brokenmnemonic November 3 2007, 23:38:53 UTC

I think Razor worked really well as a standalone piece--Kendra's story was a powerful one and her narrative provided the structure.
Given that BSG is quite an insular show by the very nature of the situation everyone is in, Kendra gave us a valuable chance to see how things look from an outside perspective that we haven't had in a long time.

I liked the restraint in her character a lot--she was haunted by her actions but she carried that privately. Even her drug use wasn't over-dramatised.
That was one thing I liked about her - and I think one reason she reminded me of Lee in some ways. After all the melodrama of S3, to have a character who's restrained even as she's dealing with trauma was very refreshing.

We're invited to judge them purely on their actions post the attacks.
That may change slightly in the DVD release - as I mentioned, there's at least one flashback to Helena Cain as a child during the first Cylon war.

Although she makes mistakes (giving the codes to Gina) she also makes up for them by acting swiftly as soon as ( ... )

bop_radar November 4 2007, 05:28:07 UTC

After all the melodrama of S3, to have a character who's restrained even as she's dealing with trauma was very refreshing.
It really was. I was surprised by that direction choice, and the casting choice. An Asian Australian (or Kiwi?)! COOL!

That may change slightly in the DVD release - as I mentioned, there's at least one flashback to Helena Cain as a child during the first Cylon war.
I'll be really interested to see the DVD release. Watching this I thought they'd chosen firmly to focus on only who they were after the attacks. I am really looking forward to the DVD even if it ends up being less powerful overall. I want more detail! It was that gripping and engaging, I want whatever else they'll give us.

the Cylons seem to be superb at manipulating others, and putting themselves in positions of influence on some level.Oh absolutely. I actually found the scene where Cain had them all to dinner and the sense of them being a cosy tight group at that time quite effective (despite the speedy montage way of showing it). Unlike Bill, they ( ... )

brokenmnemonic November 3 2007, 23:39:36 UTC

When Adama talks to Lee about 'trust', he comments that they trust each other to do their jobs. That's as far as it goes--surface only.
Absolutely - I wonder if Adama realised just how many levels that's true on.

She gets another chance, and it's one that leads to redemption for her. She may assert that there are 'no do-overs' but Razor also shows that you can always make different, better decisions the next time around.
I do wonder at the message that RDM is sending here, and how it'll play into Season 4 - the characters he writes who redeem themselves invariably seem to end up dying as a result. At the same time, it does show that those given a chance to redeem themselves can sometimes do so - adding a layer to characters like Baltar, who consistently fail to take those chances.

The problem with Cain's influence is that she teaches them not only not to listen to their fear but also not to listen to their conscience.Cain teaches them to become the enemy, in effect - to fight with the same lack of compassion, mercy or emotion as ( ... )

bop_radar November 4 2007, 05:48:33 UTC

the characters he writes who redeem themselves invariably seem to end up dying as a result
That bodes badly for Lee, who I can see definitely feeling that death was the only redemption available to him at a certain point.

t does show that those given a chance to redeem themselves can sometimes do so - adding a layer to characters like Baltar, who consistently fail to take those chances.
Yes, and Razor shows us a number of different options of people getting 'do-overs' or rather new situations in which to make better decisions--Cain (who doesn't change), Kendra (who does), Kara (who does--in the sense that she opts away from the chain of command on Pegasus), Lee (implied--since he seems to really take what's happened to heart) and the Pegasus crew themselves who have had so many new starts with commanders. You can't change the past but you can always make a fresh start tomorrow.

He really believes in that idea, that they either have trust or they don't - and the events that render that moot are the joker that he can't plan for or ( ... )