BSG: Razor
I'm friendslocking this, at least until others have seen 'Razor'. This post is as spoilery as you can get. Seriously don't click if you don't want to know. ETA: unlocked now
( spoilery spoilery spoilers and much heavy thinky for Razor )
( spoilery spoilery spoilers and much heavy thinky for Razor )
Absolutely - I wonder if Adama realised just how many levels that's true on.
She gets another chance, and it's one that leads to redemption for her. She may assert that there are 'no do-overs' but Razor also shows that you can always make different, better decisions the next time around.
I do wonder at the message that RDM is sending here, and how it'll play into Season 4 - the characters he writes who redeem themselves invariably seem to end up dying as a result. At the same time, it does show that those given a chance to redeem themselves can sometimes do so - adding a layer to characters like Baltar, who consistently fail to take those chances.
The problem with Cain's influence is that she teaches them not only not to listen to their fear but also not to listen to their conscience.
Cain teaches them to become the enemy, in effect - to fight with the same lack of compassion, mercy or emotion as they do.
I think this is both true and not true, as the events that unfolded following that proclamation show. Circumstances can interfere, and as soon as Lee crashed the Blackbird, it didn't matter whether they had trust or not: he wouldn't be there for Kara. In the end, it's his actions (or non-actions) that speak for who he is, as Kendra suggests.
I think this actually neatly encapsulates one of the problems that Lee is going to always struggle with - and perhaps one of the things that highlights why he has so much trouble with the moral problems he encounters throughout canon. He really believes in that idea, that they either have trust or they don't - and the events that render that moot are the joker that he can't plan for or predict, but which he has to take responsibility for anyway.
It's not trust that they won't put each other's lives at stake if the military situation demands it. It's not trust that they won't fight, argue and hate each other at times. But there's a tie binding them despite all that. But when it comes down to it Lee trusts Kara to complete the mission--but fate decides otherwise.
One thing that does strike me is that Kara never questions Lee's order - and even Adama doesn't try to countermand him, instead urging him to wait. It would seem that Kara trusts Lee enough to know that he wouldn't give an order like that unless it was necessary - although I do wonder how the fandom's going to see it. There's a lot of mileage in debating why Kara looked so taken aback - I think it was that she'd never realised until that point just what it meant for Lee to be the Commander, or that he'd be willing to go that far. Perhaps she hadn't realised how bad the situation was, although I can't see Lee or Adama holding back information on a mission like this. I certainly don't think Kara ever thought she'd hear Lee say something like that to her.
The message from this seems to be very fatalistic--you can place your faith in trust but it can be torn from you or turned on it's head.
It's also something of a lesson in futility, which is very Ron.
The parallels in the personality stakes are far more obvious. Both are tough and wilful and demand respect from others. However where Kara is inclined to emotional explosions and mouthing off, Kendra is silent, bordering on sullen.
Another thing that made me want to see Kara and Kendra in scenes together - because with the silent, tightly controlled feel, Kendra reminded me of how Lee sometimes deals with things, and I wanted to see how Kara reacted to that - perhaps out of a masochistic desire to see if she does treat Lee differently to others.
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That bodes badly for Lee, who I can see definitely feeling that death was the only redemption available to him at a certain point.
t does show that those given a chance to redeem themselves can sometimes do so - adding a layer to characters like Baltar, who consistently fail to take those chances.
Yes, and Razor shows us a number of different options of people getting 'do-overs' or rather new situations in which to make better decisions--Cain (who doesn't change), Kendra (who does), Kara (who does--in the sense that she opts away from the chain of command on Pegasus), Lee (implied--since he seems to really take what's happened to heart) and the Pegasus crew themselves who have had so many new starts with commanders. You can't change the past but you can always make a fresh start tomorrow.
He really believes in that idea, that they either have trust or they don't - and the events that render that moot are the joker that he can't plan for or predict, but which he has to take responsibility for anyway.
Yes, I agree that that's the wildcard for Lee and it's the heart of one of his deepest personal crises--one which comes up again and again. We saw it again in Maelstrom when he put ALL his faith in trust and Kara died anyway. I'm not sure how he gets over or past that or if he ever will, or even if I want him to. Because the fact that he really believes that is one of the things that I love most about him, even if it's also a heartbreaker.
even Adama doesn't try to countermand him, instead urging him to wait
And Adama doesn't bring it up later either--I think he knew it was the right decision too but he just wanted to play for time as long as possible, which is I guess often the voice of the person at the commander's side (even if it's their superior).
There's a lot of mileage in debating why Kara looked so taken aback - I think it was that she'd never realised until that point just what it meant for Lee to be the Commander, or that he'd be willing to go that far.
My read's different on that. Because she didn't hesitate even though she looked sickened and shocked. She absorbed it so fast I interpreted her as suspecting that it might come to that and the only shock she had was the 'wow, Lee really IS going to ask this of me' and the shock of hearing those direction in his voice, and also the shock of realising she only has minutes left to live. That's SO much to take in so fast, I sort of didn't think she had any other layers of shock about it. So my read is more that Kara had always intellectually know this was a possibility but wasn't prepared for the emotional whammy, if that makes sense. That's very Kara to me: going into a situation telling herself she can handle whatever it deals out and indeed handling it, but also copping a massive emotional blow that she tries to swallow whole.
It's also something of a lesson in futility, which is very Ron.
Ha! Yes. I fear that BSG is a study in futility sometimes. I guess that's why I don't want Lee to 'get over' his faith in trust. And why I loved Crossroads so much because it was Lee saying 'yes, it IS all futile and everything really is THAT BLEAK, but dammit I'm going to hang on to my humanity anyway'. And by that stage he had every reason to have abandonned the whole trust idea, but somehow I don't think he will have.
Kendra reminded me of how Lee sometimes deals with things, and I wanted to see how Kara reacted to that - perhaps out of a masochistic desire to see if she does treat Lee differently to others.
That would be interesting, yes. I have a hunch that Kara would have an issue with that behaviour in anyone. It's not a type of behaviour she really knows what to do with. Kat, for instance, 'spoke her language', but it wasn't until Kendra volunteered to stay behind in that stoic way that I felt that Kara really saw who Kendra was. And then only briefly. I also think it's only part of the story with Kara's behaviour towards Lee though because it's not just that quietness that Kara doesn't know what to do with--she doesn't know what to do when Lee has his rare emotionally effusive moments either.
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