OMG THIS IS SO EPIC AND BEAUTIFUL AND INSIGHTFUL THAT I COULD CRY. I really need to read the novelization because I have only ever read excerpts from it and while I knew it was incredibly slashy, I clearly need to redefine what 'incredibly slashy' means. MY MIND IS BLOWN.
Usually when I'm reading meta I can't help playing the devil's advocate, and every time the writer puts out an argument I go "but that scene could just as likely be interpreted as..." or "but this assertion glosses over the fact that..." etc in my mind, but THIS... omg I literally cannot come up with any credible counterarguments (admittedly I might think differently about it once I've read the novel, but I've got a feeling that is extremely unlikely to happen :P)
Seriously, NO ONE WILL EVER BE ABLE TO CONVINCE ME THAT KIRK/SPOCK IS NOT FOUNDED IN CANON. WHY ISN'T EVERYONE EVERYWHERE SHIPPING K/S?? IT'S SUCH AN AMAZING ROMANCE. I JUST DON'T GET IT
( ... )
WAHAHAHA, few shall challenge my claims for they are ignorant of the novel's text! lol, j/k, you'll probably find plenty of counter arguments in there.
*blushes* oh, you flatter. Yes I will get into your pants now.
I love the TMP novelisation - it's like the slashiness of the movie turned up to eleven. And yet there are still people who act like K/S is somehow sullying Roddenberry's vision. I don't get it.
t’hy’la, that magical Vulcan word that was never used in actual canon, never spoken by a character or included in any novel besides this one.
Actually, it's used in at least a couple of other novels. In Dwellers in the Crucible it's used for a relationship between another human and Vulcan who are a) compared fairly explicitly to Kirk and Spock, and b) about an inch away from being a lesbian couple. Seriously, the subtext is just glaring.
The interesting thing is that the other novels really try to downplay the "lover" part of the definition - even the famous "Killing Time" defines it as friend, brother, companion.
Why put ‘lover’ into the definition in the first place? That's always been my question. The footnote almost immediately segues into trying to convince people that Spock didn't really mean "lover", but that doesn't change the
( ... )
This whole story is about two idiot men who can’t own up to their feelings and instead try to find substitutes for the thing they really want. They really are perfect for each other, aren’t they?
I remember right after the reboot movie came out, someone on a blog I used to follow was considering watching TOS, and she expressed dismay at the absence of "the love story of Spock and Uhura". What amused me was that several people immediately commented that there is a love story in TOS, but it's between Spock and someone else. XD
Anyway, I love your analysis. I'm writing a post-TMP fic at the moment, so this helped me sort some stuff out in my head.
I don't consider other novels canon, but I am thrilled with the fact that it's used in another romantic context. Further proof that all roads lead to slash!
And you know, that's a good point with the 'straight until prove otherwise'. When I was in the in the late 80s/early 90s, I had little to no idea what homosexuality was and it never occurred to me until I was a preteen that two guys could possibly be together like that without attaching a thousand stereotypes, and I had the internet at that revelation. The only audience Roddenberry was really responding to was the underground collection of slash fans while most everyone else couldn't see K/S if they made out right in front of them
( ... )
Now this... this... TOTALLYEPICOMFGIT'SCANONGAYLOVESTORY THAT'SBETTERTHENFREAKINGROMEOANDJULLIETT,GOTOHELLANDBACKANDALL AWESOMESHIT... :breaths: THIS is what got me hooked on K/S in the first place. COULD THIS POSSIBLY GET ANY MORE GAY?? :Sqqquuuueee:
SERIOUSLY THO, GREATEST ROMANCE EVER OR GREATEST ROMANCE EVER? I admit to watching Search for Spock when I feel like romance because dear god how that movie is gay. I'd almost want to write meta on that, but it's too freaking OBVIOUS and what can you say to shit like, "His soul is my responsibility, as surely as if it were my very own." MARRIED IN SPACE. And, frankly, it's much more tragic than Romeo and Juliet. I mean, those two teens barely knew each other and were kind of stupid, but Kirk and Spock had been married for years and their time was cut short and then there's the deleted STXI thing where Spock Prime wore a hologram of Kirk talking to him after 100 YEARS and just, ALDJFALDKJF;F, ALL THESE FEELINGS I HAVE.
This makes so much sense. There's no amount of sense this doesn't make. Not that I needed convincing, but it's nice to have it all written out so nicely. And I really get the feeling Roddenberry knew exactly what he was doing. Like he was trying to walk a fine line between the believers in K/S and the non-believers. Like he cared enough about all of us and our interpretations to do that. Which is sweet.
Thanks! Yeah, I don't know if I totally believe he was secretly planning K/S all along, but I know he was cool with it and he seems like the type of person who would be open-minded to all fans. Plus Shatner and Nimoy, I swear, knew at least a little something. Did you hear the anecdote from a book from a person who got to visit the set for a week while they were filming Turnabout Intruder? If you haven't, Shatner flubbed a line and instead (paraphrasing) "Spock, it's always been you, tell me you love me too." And of course the backrub scene which is so over the top and played for laughs, I love it.
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I really need to read the novelization because I have only ever read excerpts from it and while I knew it was incredibly slashy, I clearly need to redefine what 'incredibly slashy' means. MY MIND IS BLOWN.
Usually when I'm reading meta I can't help playing the devil's advocate, and every time the writer puts out an argument I go "but that scene could just as likely be interpreted as..." or "but this assertion glosses over the fact that..." etc in my mind, but THIS... omg I literally cannot come up with any credible counterarguments (admittedly I might think differently about it once I've read the novel, but I've got a feeling that is extremely unlikely to happen :P)
Seriously, NO ONE WILL EVER BE ABLE TO CONVINCE ME THAT KIRK/SPOCK IS NOT FOUNDED IN CANON. WHY ISN'T EVERYONE EVERYWHERE SHIPPING K/S?? IT'S SUCH AN AMAZING ROMANCE. I JUST DON'T GET IT ( ... )
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*blushes* oh, you flatter. Yes I will get into your pants now.
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t’hy’la, that magical Vulcan word that was never used in actual canon, never spoken by a character or included in any novel besides this one.
Actually, it's used in at least a couple of other novels. In Dwellers in the Crucible it's used for a relationship between another human and Vulcan who are a) compared fairly explicitly to Kirk and Spock, and b) about an inch away from being a lesbian couple. Seriously, the subtext is just glaring.
The interesting thing is that the other novels really try to downplay the "lover" part of the definition - even the famous "Killing Time" defines it as friend, brother, companion.
Why put ‘lover’ into the definition in the first place? That's always been my question. The footnote almost immediately segues into trying to convince people that Spock didn't really mean "lover", but that doesn't change the ( ... )
Reply
I remember right after the reboot movie came out, someone on a blog I used to follow was considering watching TOS, and she expressed dismay at the absence of "the love story of Spock and Uhura". What amused me was that several people immediately commented that there is a love story in TOS, but it's between Spock and someone else. XD
Anyway, I love your analysis. I'm writing a post-TMP fic at the moment, so this helped me sort some stuff out in my head.
Reply
And you know, that's a good point with the 'straight until prove otherwise'. When I was in the in the late 80s/early 90s, I had little to no idea what homosexuality was and it never occurred to me until I was a preteen that two guys could possibly be together like that without attaching a thousand stereotypes, and I had the internet at that revelation. The only audience Roddenberry was really responding to was the underground collection of slash fans while most everyone else couldn't see K/S if they made out right in front of them ( ... )
Reply
Me neither - just pointing out that it is used outside of the TMP novelisation. I wish we could've heard it onscreen at least once, though.
Can't a love story be a love story regardless of gender?
Oh, don't even get me started. *Sighs heavily*
Link me to your footnote fic?
It's here. :)
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