Can we have a serious discussion about forgiveness?

[badboy_fangirl]

Or at least forgiveness in relationship to my television shows, because THAT'S SRS BSNS, y'all.

So you all know my affinity for badboys (my name is not a clever ruse to distract you from the real me, after all), but I've been contemplating some thoughts and theories in relationship to the pairings of Logan/Veronica (from Veronica Mars) and Damon/

Comments

[butterfly]

Interestingly, as an atheist, I have a similar attitude toward forgiveness, but for different reasons (since I think that we're all we've got and we all make mistakes and perfection doesn't exist, I think forgiveness is essential in human society just so that people can co-exist and be friends/allies). I favor a compassion/forgiveness-based morality over a judgmental one (basically, if you look at my icon, those are my feelings about morality all wrapped up in one sentence; thank you for that line, Arthur Schopenhauer).

This was the big disconnect that I had with Harry Potter - in that series, courage is the most fundamental virtue and while I think courage is a helpful aid to action, I don't think that being courageous makes a person virtuous in and of itself.

And it means that I do really identify with TVD universe, because it's pretty much all about forgiveness and compassion.

(I've never seen VM, so I can't speak to that show)

[badboy_fangirl]

Interestingly, my friend that I had the falling out with? Also an atheist; unfortunately, not your kind of atheist, which I must say I prefer. I think the biggest misconception about compassion is that you are somehow agreeing with the person you have compassion for; in many cases, I am morally at odds with someone I have compassion for, but that's the beauty of it. Understanding, and love especially, isn't something that's earned. It's something that must be given unconditionally to be most effective, and the more you give it, the better a person you become; or at least, that's been true for me

[butterfly]

Interestingly, my friend that I had the falling out with? Also an atheist; unfortunately, not your kind of atheist, which I must say I prefer. I think the biggest misconception about compassion is that you are somehow agreeing with the person you have compassion for; in many cases, I am morally at odds with someone I have compassion for, but that's the beauty of it. Understanding, and love especially, isn't something that's earned. It's something that must be given unconditionally to be most effective, and the more you give it, the better a person you become; or at least, that's been true for me

Yeah, I've seen that a lot, too, where people think that because I can understand an action or even have sympathy for the person who took it, that means that I agree with them and, no, not really. That's an entirely separate thing.

It's interesting that you took courage as the "fundamental virtue" which may have been what Rowling was going for, but I take "choice" as being the fundamental virtue. Despite hard lives, awful childhoods, abuse,

[arabian]

I'm going to be incredibly lame, but I honestly have nothing else to add beyond:

WORD!

Seriously, every word fits my frame of mind to a tee. Eww! KBell, the issues I have. THE ISSUES! (She was jealous of the fact that people loved Jason -- and Logan -- and that he got attention from fans, press and *especially* critics when VM was supposed to be HER star vehicle, damnit!)

ETA: Okay, I had a teeny more to add. ;)

[badboy_fangirl]

It's just interesting to me that I've never liked her, based on absolutely nothing but the feeling she gives me in the few movies I've seen her in. It's like I could discern she was BAD NEWS!

[arabian]

SHE IS!!!!

[distant_lines]

I love this! I honestly want to take this post down to City Hall and marry it

[crowandfog]

Um, wow, you can marry Candy's post, and maybe I can marry yours???

Seriously, your response is pretty much THE EXACT RESPONSE that I was going to have, INCLUDING your attitude towards friendships (even having an application process, which I do, too) and your relationship with your father (something that I am also going through myself).

Some things that I especially agree with:

I've noticed through my life that my friendships tend to die out around after about two years, but the ones that stick around past two years, those people are in my life for ages.

I truly believe that forgiveness comes to forgiveness, it's hard to come by unless you truly know the person, which is why I can forgive my friends and family for so much, because I feel that I know who they are as a person and that their actions do not define them.

I think forgiveness reaches its limit once you realize that someone is never going to truly change their behavior, and it's a hard pill to swallow, but sometimes I think it is better to cut the cord and let it all go

[distant_lines]

Are we twins? lol

I'm glad you enjoyed my post, I felt like I was rambling there for a minute, so glad to know I didn't just veer off into delusion or something.

I am friending you back!

[badboy_fangirl]

I would guess most of us have someone like you mention here, and I do think there is a difference between forgiveness and self-preservation. You can do both and be right, and often people will misinterpret that as not forgiving, but doing what's best for you doesn't mean you're harboring bad feelings for a person; it means you are putting yourself in sitch that you don't have to keep forgiving something that is never gonna change.

And that's just plain smart.

I have always liked that aspect of the Damon/Stefan relationship too--going back to those early episodes when Damon keeps pointing out the fact that Stefan's not telling the truth, and it's going to come back and bite him in the ass, because of course it does. And interestingly, it's Damon who tends to be there to help Elena in those times. :-)

[becca_radcgg]

You already know my feelings on your "friend," as dissociated as I was from the problem near the end. Sometimes it's not about forgiveness at all. Sometimes people are just not meant to be a part of your life and aren't you a lighter, happier person without that baggage?

I honestly didn't know about the whole K. Bell drama. She and Jason were really close. She always said he was like a little brother to her. I don't know why she would be so anti-Logan/Veronica. They worked for me. But yah, I could forgive Logan almost anything.

With my friends, it mirrors what you said. My RL BFFs, I can forgive almost anything. We've all been friends for years and years so we know each other really well. My other friends... well, it depends. If the person is willing to accept that no problem has just one person at fault, then there are no worries. Time fixes almost everything. Almost.

[badboy_fangirl]

It really bothered me to read her feelings on the whole thing because while I can see why some people might think Duncan was the better choice, to not be able to find any appeal or sense in the relationship with Logan makes me think she's stupid. And I don't like stupid people.

For all the things I've ever had to forgive amongst my friends, I presume they've forgiven me just as much, and that makes us even, so I'm good with it.

[crowandfog]

to not be able to find any appeal or sense in the relationship with Logan makes me think she's stupid. And I don't like stupid people.

Preach it. She's basically saying that there is nothing of value in Logan, which simply isn't true--even if it's nothing more than "oh, he's funny" or "oh, he's handsome." There's still something to desire in him; just because it's not enough for KB, doesn't mean that it's not enough for someone else. She has an attitude that I've seen applied to Damon quite often as well, and it irritates. Greatly.