Can we have a serious discussion about forgiveness?
Or at least forgiveness in relationship to my television shows, because THAT'S SRS BSNS, y'all.
So you all know my affinity for badboys (my name is not a clever ruse to distract you from the real me, after all), but I've been contemplating some thoughts and theories in relationship to the pairings of Logan/Veronica (from Veronica Mars) and Damon/Elena (from TVD). There are some parallels, as is always the case with the badboy/good girl (or relatively good girl in comparison with the badboy) pairing, and for me what it comes down to is forgiveness. And I think I'm greatly influenced by this notion in regards to my religious beliefs and how it works in my real life, and I do tend to apply a certain level of it within the fictional worlds that I spend time as a fangirl. (There will be spoilers for both shows in my thoughts below.)
I mean, the truth of the matter is, everyone makes mistakes, and everyone is in need of someone else's forgiveness at some point. The common complaints I hear especially in TVD fandom is that Elena has forgiven Damon too quickly, or they think she should NEVER forgive him for the things he's done. And granted, he's done some heinous things. I've had this discussion multiple times with lots of people on the f-list about not judging Damon, a vampire, by the same moires that hold true in "real life" or even in a non-supernatural show, which leads me to the Logan/Veronica comparison.
silviakundera responded to my latest thoughts on my first time watching of VM with this insight:
I think one of the challenges to keeping Veronica/Logan together on the show was I remember K Bell being so strongly against the pairing. As I recall, she became more and more vocal about it as the series went on. (When V/L get back together, from an actual interview/article: "But it's not the 26-year-old's own love life she's currently dissecting with such deep distaste; it's that of her on-screen alter ego, Veronica Mars, the street-smart private investigator whose only big weakness, at least according to the actress who plays her, is her questionable taste in men. "It's the one thing I don't understand about her level of self-respect") K Bell was very pro-Duncan/Veronica and then later basically anyone/Veronica who wasn't Logan. She wasn't fond of Logan's character in general. I don't know if that had something to do with clashes with Jason Dohring or what.
Now, politics on shows being what they are from studio heads to creators to actors and their pithy remarks, what I found most interesting about this idea is that Kristen Bell, the actress who played Veronica could not understand how Veronica would want to be with Logan. This befuddles me on many levels. It's one thing to think Duncan (or Stefan) is a superior choice for Veronica (or Elena) for the many reasons that could be listed that basically boils down to Duncan/Stefan being a better person than Logan/Damon. The problem with this short-sightedness is ignoring all the reasons why people are the way they are--and Logan and Damon have reasons for why they are the way they are. Not EXCUSES, but reasons. They both also have moments where they grow and become better for various reasons, some of which are tied to the feelings they develop for a girl.
Now, don't get me wrong; though I believe in forgiveness (as a Christian, I see it as the fundamental part of humanity seeking absolution from a loving God who cannot give us forgiveness unless we are first willing to dole it out ourselves), I don't believe in FORGETTING what people do you. There are times when an act is so terrible it takes a long time to forgive, and often the best way of handling a situation like that is to not put yourself back into it. You can forgive the person who ran you down in their car, but then you can choose to keep yourself out of traffic; and I get that, and that's fine by me. Perhaps if I saw this on either of these shows, it would satisfy me within the storyline--I could at least understand where the character is coming from in that regard.
But the truth is, what I see in both of these shows are two couples with a foundation of attraction that eventually leads to love, and when you love people you forgive them. Not blindly of course, but with the understanding that they accept you and your short-comings as well, and we're all on a journey together trying to be better people. Now, perhaps that's too simplistic, particularly for these complex relationships on both of these shows, but sometimes what I see in the remarks made about them is this lack of compassion and this huge tendency to hold a grudge, and to never look at what causes actions, but only see the actions and be completely dismayed and wounded and unforgiving of all things like unto it. And if you are this way with your fictional characters, how are you with the real, live human beings in your life? One mistake and they're forever gone?
About a year ago, I had a falling out with one of my LJ friends, and the biggest reason the relationship didn't get repaired was because she couldn't admit she'd done anything wrong; she couldn't see fit to forgive me for perceived wrong doings and at the same time could not see anything wrong with her own behavior. There's a lot to be said for not worrying about the mote in your brother's eye when you've got a beam in yours--and I think that's why I like flawed characters, because I believe in forgiveness, and redemption, and I like to see fictional characters make that journey because I'm on the same one every day of my life. Granted I've never killed anyone or drugged someone so they could have a "good time" but I still need forgiveness. And I like to grant it too.
So you all know my affinity for badboys (my name is not a clever ruse to distract you from the real me, after all), but I've been contemplating some thoughts and theories in relationship to the pairings of Logan/Veronica (from Veronica Mars) and Damon/Elena (from TVD). There are some parallels, as is always the case with the badboy/good girl (or relatively good girl in comparison with the badboy) pairing, and for me what it comes down to is forgiveness. And I think I'm greatly influenced by this notion in regards to my religious beliefs and how it works in my real life, and I do tend to apply a certain level of it within the fictional worlds that I spend time as a fangirl. (There will be spoilers for both shows in my thoughts below.)
I mean, the truth of the matter is, everyone makes mistakes, and everyone is in need of someone else's forgiveness at some point. The common complaints I hear especially in TVD fandom is that Elena has forgiven Damon too quickly, or they think she should NEVER forgive him for the things he's done. And granted, he's done some heinous things. I've had this discussion multiple times with lots of people on the f-list about not judging Damon, a vampire, by the same moires that hold true in "real life" or even in a non-supernatural show, which leads me to the Logan/Veronica comparison.
silviakundera responded to my latest thoughts on my first time watching of VM with this insight:
I think one of the challenges to keeping Veronica/Logan together on the show was I remember K Bell being so strongly against the pairing. As I recall, she became more and more vocal about it as the series went on. (When V/L get back together, from an actual interview/article: "But it's not the 26-year-old's own love life she's currently dissecting with such deep distaste; it's that of her on-screen alter ego, Veronica Mars, the street-smart private investigator whose only big weakness, at least according to the actress who plays her, is her questionable taste in men. "It's the one thing I don't understand about her level of self-respect") K Bell was very pro-Duncan/Veronica and then later basically anyone/Veronica who wasn't Logan. She wasn't fond of Logan's character in general. I don't know if that had something to do with clashes with Jason Dohring or what.
Now, politics on shows being what they are from studio heads to creators to actors and their pithy remarks, what I found most interesting about this idea is that Kristen Bell, the actress who played Veronica could not understand how Veronica would want to be with Logan. This befuddles me on many levels. It's one thing to think Duncan (or Stefan) is a superior choice for Veronica (or Elena) for the many reasons that could be listed that basically boils down to Duncan/Stefan being a better person than Logan/Damon. The problem with this short-sightedness is ignoring all the reasons why people are the way they are--and Logan and Damon have reasons for why they are the way they are. Not EXCUSES, but reasons. They both also have moments where they grow and become better for various reasons, some of which are tied to the feelings they develop for a girl.
Now, don't get me wrong; though I believe in forgiveness (as a Christian, I see it as the fundamental part of humanity seeking absolution from a loving God who cannot give us forgiveness unless we are first willing to dole it out ourselves), I don't believe in FORGETTING what people do you. There are times when an act is so terrible it takes a long time to forgive, and often the best way of handling a situation like that is to not put yourself back into it. You can forgive the person who ran you down in their car, but then you can choose to keep yourself out of traffic; and I get that, and that's fine by me. Perhaps if I saw this on either of these shows, it would satisfy me within the storyline--I could at least understand where the character is coming from in that regard.
But the truth is, what I see in both of these shows are two couples with a foundation of attraction that eventually leads to love, and when you love people you forgive them. Not blindly of course, but with the understanding that they accept you and your short-comings as well, and we're all on a journey together trying to be better people. Now, perhaps that's too simplistic, particularly for these complex relationships on both of these shows, but sometimes what I see in the remarks made about them is this lack of compassion and this huge tendency to hold a grudge, and to never look at what causes actions, but only see the actions and be completely dismayed and wounded and unforgiving of all things like unto it. And if you are this way with your fictional characters, how are you with the real, live human beings in your life? One mistake and they're forever gone?
About a year ago, I had a falling out with one of my LJ friends, and the biggest reason the relationship didn't get repaired was because she couldn't admit she'd done anything wrong; she couldn't see fit to forgive me for perceived wrong doings and at the same time could not see anything wrong with her own behavior. There's a lot to be said for not worrying about the mote in your brother's eye when you've got a beam in yours--and I think that's why I like flawed characters, because I believe in forgiveness, and redemption, and I like to see fictional characters make that journey because I'm on the same one every day of my life. Granted I've never killed anyone or drugged someone so they could have a "good time" but I still need forgiveness. And I like to grant it too.