That's quite possible. Assuming that's her in the pic, and that it's recent, she herself certainly doesn't look any more than "slightly overweight." If that's what she meant, though, then I wish she'd said so. If by "fat" she means anyone who's not actually annorexic, that's a whole new bundle of offensiveness. :/
That's how the piece comes across to me. If you read it substituting "slightly heavier than you would ideally like to be" in place of "fat", then it makes more sense. Yes go buy your bloody gorgeous dress now, that's only sensible. But, as you say, that interpretation leaves her buying into the hideous idea that anyone over the size of eight is "fat". Which generates way too many of it's own problems
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I think Kate's problem is that she is using the label "fat" to mean such a hugely wide spectrum, and she isn't addressing anything more than the normal sized person.
I agree. And again, if that's what she meant then I wish she'd been clearer. If she wants to tell a bunch of women who are desperate to lose one or two dress sizes that they're delusional, fine -- one of them can get angry and post her own rant. [wry smile]
And yeah, it's all related to your height and your frame size. Despite being tall, I have a slender frame. My hands are the same size or smaller than most women several inches shorter than I am, and before I gained all t he weight I wore a size seven shoe, when someone my height really should wear a ten or eleven. I've joked more than once that somewhere in the world, there's some short little 5'4" chick who has my feet and is really pissed off. :P I'd love to swap with her, too.
that interpretation leaves her buying into the hideous idea that anyone over the size of eight is "fat". Which generates way too
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I agree, it seemed to me she meant heavy instead of fat. Which bugs me too, even though I'm not fat. (I am about 15 pounds over my ideal weight, but I know I'm not actually fat.)
Not to mention, she says people have to accept the things they'll never be as if we're all kidding ourselves every day about our age and options. Sorry, I am a grown up. I made peace with the "Never gonna be a rock star/movie star" a long time ago. I don't need someone to advise me to do so now. Is she saying fat people are all immature?
It sure sounds like it. And yeah, I can buy that there are some fat people who do think that way, who are using the fat as an excuse for not working on the other aspects of their lives that they're unhappy with. But the assumption that all fat people think that way, that we're all either 1) desperate to lose weight so we can be a rock star and have a hot boyfriend and hike through Tibet, or 2) perfectly happy and content to be however fat we are now, is pretty darned insulting.
Mmm, haven't you taken this the wrong way? I read it quite carefully, and I don't think she ever said that the solution for one's fat-induced health problems are to be resolved by acceptance. She is, as you very correctly say, talking of a problem which is between the ears, and not on the hips. Only, in her case, and in that of many other people (me for example, but obviously not you) it took a while to realize what the real problem was. Sorry to hear about your health problems, by the way.
It sounds, though, like she's saying that if you don't accept that you're a fat person and always will be, that if you can't be happy and content as a fat person, that you're deluded and will never be happy, or something. Yes, she's talking about the problems between one's ears rather than around one's hips, but she seems to assume that every fat person who's working on becoming less fat has those problems between their ears. And also that they're doomed to failure because you can never get "thin" and stay that way so why try?
Maybe I'm misinterpreting her, but it sounds to me like she's saying that there's this particular emotional problem as described, and every fat person who hasn't accepted their fat has that problem. I find that insulting. [shrug]
Sorry, I don't want to take this too far, because it's funny talking about what another person might have meant, but ... yeah, I think she is "saying that there's this particular emotional problem as described, and every fat person who hasn't accepted their fat has that problem." only I don't think it is insulting, in that, to me, it means accepting one's fat as one of your problems, and therefore being able to tackle it (or not, as the case might be), instead of seeing it as the single, insurmountable obstacle that stands between you and a shiny, perfect life. ... I'm not sure this is quite clear, but I can't think of a better way of putting it down right now; I'll have to rely on your abilities. BTW, isn't very late (or very early) where you are?
It's about 3am here. It's pretty normal for me to be up at this time -- I woke up after several hours of sleep at around 9pm or so. :)
The thing is, it doesn't sound to me (and yeah, one can only go so far arguing about what someone else meant, heh) like she wants people to accept fat as one of their problems. On the contrary, it sounds like she wants people to stop seeing fat as a problem and just... ignore it, or something. Which is fine if you can. If you're only, say, twenty pounds overweight, that's hardly anything and easy to ignore. Those of us who are a hundred and twenty pounds overweight, though, or more, don't really have the option of ignoring it and doing all the things we want to do anyway
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I see you're really pissed off about this, and I understand what you're saying, but I think you're taking her far too literally about some things. I don't think she ever said that EVERY fat person was X or EVERY fat person FELT X. I think she's making a general commentary stating that until fat people accept that yes, they are whatever weight they are, they can't get on with their lives. I know far too many people who have the "once I lose weight I'll..." syndrome, and they're not trying to address their weight, and meanwhile their life is passing them by. I think that's what she's commenting on. If it doesn't apply to you, perhaps you're not the target audience and you have already accepted that you're you and you're living your life with a good objective view. Many women feel that if they're fat -- from a little overweight to morbidly obese -- they really can't justify doing anything they want to do until they lose weight. Again, it may not apply to you but I cannot COUNT how many women I KNOW of that this does apply to.
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I get that what she has to say probably applies to a number of people. I'm not one of them, though, and the way she said it makes it sound like she's talking to every fat person who's not already absolutely delighted with her fat life. If she meant only a subset -- and I still don't think what she has to say applies at all to anyone who's truly obese -- then she should've been more careful about specifying which group she was addressing.
I disagree that she means we should accept that we are fat; obviously we're interpreting her differently there.
I know I'm fat; that kind of denial has never been a problem of mine. [wry smile] I also hate being fat and I'm working on changing it. I have no interest in accepting my fat self, or being satisfied with the way I am, or letting go of my goal of losing weight. If she believes she's fat (I still don't see it, but whatever) and is happy the way she is, and has a full and satisfying life, then that's great, seriously. And if there are women out there who think their entire lives (
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Honestly at first I wondered about that accepting fat deal too. But then as she goes on, she more carefully defines it and does talk about becoming healthy, etc., which I interpreted as her saying yes, you can do things about your weight, but you first have to accept that you have a life AS A FAT PERSON that you are entitled to live, and you have to stop killing yourself with these stupid fad diets. I don't think she meant that you CAN'T lose weight, just that fad dieting doesn't work because it's abnormal. I do think she could have worded that part more carefully, but I think that's what she was getting at. I think she was not saying that making better food choices and exercising to gradually drop weight isn't fine, just that pulling some stupid "I'm not going to eat anything but one food group and then I'll be skinny and have a life omg!" is really not the answer
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but I see that no different than if she were to talk about unsafe sexual practices gay men tend to have in the club scene, and you happened to be a gay man who uses condoms.
If I were a gay man and was very conscientious about safe sex, and she came along and started lecturing me about it, and telling me I was deluded for thinking that I could have unprotected sex with whomever I pleased and not ever get sick, etc., then yeah, I'd be just as offended and pissed off as I am now. Because she didn't say, "Hey, all you guys who are having unprotected sex!" She said, "Hey, all you gay men!"
Or rather, she's not saying, "Hey, all you fat women who have no lives and think you have to crash-diet down to a size four before you're allowed to do anything with your life!" She's saying, "Hey, all you fat women!" I'm not deluded about being unable to travel or write a novel until I'm down to 8% body fat, but I am a fat woman and her post was addressed to me. Maybe she didn't mean for it to be, but I can only go by how she actually said what
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Exactly. [nod] I think there's a difference between someone who's a healthy and active size fourteen, who feels good and has a full life, wanting to not be harassed about her weight (which is where I can get into the "fat acceptance" thing -- when it's about other people not being assholes), and someone who's like me, with major health and quality-of-life issues being told that she should be just as happy and cool with her weight as the previously-mentioned happy size fourteen woman.
There are plenty of people, especially women, who are thought of as "fat" by modern society who are actually no such thing. Too many people think that if you can't count your ribs in the mirror, you're fat. That's an unhealthy attitude and needs to be countered. But taking it this far, with the idea that anyone who's fat should be able to just let go and be happy about it is ridiculous. And if that's not what she actually meant, then she should've rewritten it until it actually said what she meant, before she posted. :/
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Angie
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I agree. And again, if that's what she meant then I wish she'd been clearer. If she wants to tell a bunch of women who are desperate to lose one or two dress sizes that they're delusional, fine -- one of them can get angry and post her own rant. [wry smile]
And yeah, it's all related to your height and your frame size. Despite being tall, I have a slender frame. My hands are the same size or smaller than most women several inches shorter than I am, and before I gained all t he weight I wore a size seven shoe, when someone my height really should wear a ten or eleven. I've joked more than once that somewhere in the world, there's some short little 5'4" chick who has my feet and is really pissed off. :P I'd love to swap with her, too.
that interpretation leaves her buying into the hideous idea that anyone over the size of eight is "fat". Which generates way too ( ... )
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Not to mention, she says people have to accept the things they'll never be as if we're all kidding ourselves every day about our age and options. Sorry, I am a grown up. I made peace with the "Never gonna be a rock star/movie star" a long time ago. I don't need someone to advise me to do so now. Is she saying fat people are all immature?
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It sure sounds like it. And yeah, I can buy that there are some fat people who do think that way, who are using the fat as an excuse for not working on the other aspects of their lives that they're unhappy with. But the assumption that all fat people think that way, that we're all either 1) desperate to lose weight so we can be a rock star and have a hot boyfriend and hike through Tibet, or 2) perfectly happy and content to be however fat we are now, is pretty darned insulting.
Angie
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I read it quite carefully, and I don't think she ever said that the solution for one's fat-induced health problems are to be resolved by acceptance. She is, as you very correctly say, talking of a problem which is between the ears, and not on the hips. Only, in her case, and in that of many other people (me for example, but obviously not you) it took a while to realize what the real problem was.
Sorry to hear about your health problems, by the way.
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Maybe I'm misinterpreting her, but it sounds to me like she's saying that there's this particular emotional problem as described, and every fat person who hasn't accepted their fat has that problem. I find that insulting. [shrug]
Angie
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"saying that there's this particular emotional problem as described, and every fat person who hasn't accepted their fat has that problem."
only I don't think it is insulting, in that, to me, it means accepting one's fat as one of your problems, and therefore being able to tackle it (or not, as the case might be), instead of seeing it as the single, insurmountable obstacle that stands between you and a shiny, perfect life.
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I'm not sure this is quite clear, but I can't think of a better way of putting it down right now; I'll have to rely on your abilities.
BTW, isn't very late (or very early) where you are?
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The thing is, it doesn't sound to me (and yeah, one can only go so far arguing about what someone else meant, heh) like she wants people to accept fat as one of their problems. On the contrary, it sounds like she wants people to stop seeing fat as a problem and just... ignore it, or something. Which is fine if you can. If you're only, say, twenty pounds overweight, that's hardly anything and easy to ignore. Those of us who are a hundred and twenty pounds overweight, though, or more, don't really have the option of ignoring it and doing all the things we want to do anyway ( ... )
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I disagree that she means we should accept that we are fat; obviously we're interpreting her differently there.
I know I'm fat; that kind of denial has never been a problem of mine. [wry smile] I also hate being fat and I'm working on changing it. I have no interest in accepting my fat self, or being satisfied with the way I am, or letting go of my goal of losing weight. If she believes she's fat (I still don't see it, but whatever) and is happy the way she is, and has a full and satisfying life, then that's great, seriously. And if there are women out there who think their entire lives ( ( ... )
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If I were a gay man and was very conscientious about safe sex, and she came along and started lecturing me about it, and telling me I was deluded for thinking that I could have unprotected sex with whomever I pleased and not ever get sick, etc., then yeah, I'd be just as offended and pissed off as I am now. Because she didn't say, "Hey, all you guys who are having unprotected sex!" She said, "Hey, all you gay men!"
Or rather, she's not saying, "Hey, all you fat women who have no lives and think you have to crash-diet down to a size four before you're allowed to do anything with your life!" She's saying, "Hey, all you fat women!" I'm not deluded about being unable to travel or write a novel until I'm down to 8% body fat, but I am a fat woman and her post was addressed to me. Maybe she didn't mean for it to be, but I can only go by how she actually said what ( ... )
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Exactly. [nod] I think there's a difference between someone who's a healthy and active size fourteen, who feels good and has a full life, wanting to not be harassed about her weight (which is where I can get into the "fat acceptance" thing -- when it's about other people not being assholes), and someone who's like me, with major health and quality-of-life issues being told that she should be just as happy and cool with her weight as the previously-mentioned happy size fourteen woman.
There are plenty of people, especially women, who are thought of as "fat" by modern society who are actually no such thing. Too many people think that if you can't count your ribs in the mirror, you're fat. That's an unhealthy attitude and needs to be countered. But taking it this far, with the idea that anyone who's fat should be able to just let go and be happy about it is ridiculous. And if that's not what she actually meant, then she should've rewritten it until it actually said what she meant, before she posted. :/
Angie
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