Symptom of Rape Culture?

[akashathekitty]

I'd really like as many as possible to comment on this, if you have the time/inclinations/a lot of feelings, okay?

It's about this story of mine. It's also available here if you aren't a member of H&V. In the Darkness, All Cats are Grey.

I just received a PM about that fic. Rather than summarize it, I will copy it in its entirety, leaving out who

Comments

[dollfaced]

While I too agree that rape culture is a very real thing and think that the reviewer's desire to see rape portrayed more realistically in fanfic is a very legitimate concern, I still believe that IDACAG is labeled correctly. Hermione is aware that this person may not be Ron, so while she doesn't specifically consent to sex with Draco, she does consent to sex with a person who may OR may not be Ron, thus making her consent dubious.

I do take exception to the reviewer saying that the author is responsible for the actions of the reader. Sure, fiction can perpetuate rape culture, but I don't think any author can be held accountable for the specific actions of a reader.

[akashathekitty]

I do take exception to the reviewer saying that the author is responsible for the actions of the reader.

Yes, there is that. Not to mention that so far studies into the availability of fantasy material to predators affecting their habits in any way are inconclusive. They haven't been able to determine either a rise or decline in their habits.

I'm willing to chalk it down to hyperbole on her part, but you're right that it's unfortunate hyperbole.

[pokeystar]

Amen to exception part, this is the same worn track where people blame their children's bad behavior on the music/tv/movies they watch.

[akashathekitty]

Don't forget the video games!

[akashathekitty]

(my icon is directed at myself)

Just because someone doesn't act on their suspicions or protest a rape doesn't invalidate it as a rape. This is a common defense of date rapists who have sex with drunk co-eds. "Well, she didn't say no." Even though the girl's eyes may have been half-closed or her face was turned away.

Completely agreed, actually. Just because someone doesn't say no, doesn't mean yes. I did, however, in this instance take great pains to paint Hermione in this story as tipsy enough to be brave and feel like she has an excuse, but not drunk enough to lose all her faculties. And before the real sexing begins she's kinda YES, PLEASE!!! Doesn't mean it's not in a grey area, definitely not, but that was why it was labelled dub-con. =)

I think people need to be careful about putting rape in finite categories with limited feelings or imagery attached to it. The courts and public haven't really caught on to the fact that someone can feel coerced or tricked into having sex, not protest or fight back, get off during the acts,

[akashathekitty]

Yes, and lying and changing your mind about whether or not to call an act rape are two different things.

I actually meant changing your mind in the sense that the sex was consensual and then afterwards you decide you didn't want it and thus it's suddenly rape. Like I said, it's something rare enough to be pretty much an Urban Legend, yet it's something that people in my experience always consider in questions of rape. -_-

From Russia with love? lol. What's that all about? Is that where you are now? I'm slow...

Lol, it's a meme that I don't know how originated. You use the bathroom, but in Soviet Russia the bathroom uses you! IDK, it's just silly. Don't mind me.

[west_side]

I haven't read the story, but the logic of your reviewer seems off. Oh, consent is not given -> rape -> rape's driven by power -> let's fix character's motivation. Character's motivations are what they are. Suppose, H. recognizes him. What would he do? Hex her and go on or back off? A typical Granger's lecture is a turn off for a normal male, so I can easily see him rolling his eyes and going away disappointed.

As for labeling, I think that years on FFR teaches us that there's no agreement between fans about the terms they use. While social awareness may require us to recognize all these different situations as rape, fans also want to know in advance what the story is about. Non-con/dub-con labels, signalling to the reader that there's no physical violence involved, provide some of the granularity, that would be lost, if they chose to put just rape in the warnings. Does the luck of the authorial commentary in the warnings mean that the author endorses rape culture in your case? I doubt it.

[akashathekitty]

[edit for a single missing word]

Suppose, H. recognizes him. What would he do? Hex her and go on or back off? A typical Granger's lecture is a turn off for a normal male, so I can easily see him rolling his eyes and going away disappointed.

He would walk off, no question about it. He is not painted as aggressive in this fic. In fact, she starts out not wanting to do P-i-V and he tries to persuade her and then when she doesn't seem to want to budge, he just gives up and takes what he can get. And then she changes her mind.

While social awareness may require us to recognize all these different situations as rape, fans also want to know in advance what the story is about. Non-con/dub-con labels, signalling to the reader that there's no physical violence involved, provide some of the granularity, that would be lost, if they chose to put just rape in the warnings.I think you said it better than I could. Dub-con, by it's very nature, is not hunky-dory. It's just a bit more grey area than Ugly Violent Rape tends to be. Yes, if Hermione

[leandralocke]

Ok, too tired to comment with many words or even read the fic (and I admit that non-con and dub-con are not really my cuppa), but... yeah... what my icon says

[leandralocke]

LOL, many words in the end anyway... got carried away ;)

[akashathekitty]

I get carried away all the time. :) Have a teal deer on me.

As for the example of women who get drugged and raped that's an entirely different thing because they are artificially put in a state where they are not CAPABLE to protest. But as far as I understood it Hermione is both physically and metally fully conscious, or not?

She is very conscious and actively participates, yes. She's even the one that initiates oral sex. If anything can be said, it's that she is described as mildly tipsy, but I felt I took great care to show her as only have had enough to feel a little more brave and have an excuse to do something she otherwise wouldn't. She's by no means drunk.

I mean this is what fic is for, isn't it? Even real literature. It EXPLORES the grey zones of the human nature, it's not politically correct every time.

And with a pairing like Draco/Hermione, it would be dull if it was PC even half the time. I enjoy it when it's skeevy or mind-fucky, but I rarely want to paint Hermione as a victim. Up until now, my warnings have been

[leandralocke]

Two friends of mine were talking about this, no idea how they found it though ;)

I just hate wank like that. I mean okay, it wasn't exactly a flame or rude or anything, but nobody has the right to tell an author what they MUST do. When you buy a book that you don't approve of, you just put it back onto the shelf or into the bin, but if you read fic you don't like then you go smart-assing yourself on to the author. Constructive critcism is fine but this was just a bit too much.

And wow, awards you're saying? So not my pairing, unfortunately, otherwise I'd read it now ;) Despite the dub-con.

[akashathekitty]

[Edited duplicate word]

I think their points about legal precedent should specify which legal system they are referring to - pointing out that there is precedent but also acknowledging that the precedent of that region is not necessarily a precedent everywhere and not law in all places (though hopefully in the future it will be!).

I didn't really care about the details, because my stance is that what is "dub-con" in fic shouldn't be legal IRL, anyway. Coercion is bad, no matter how you swing it. It's just different than physical subjugation and much more subtle.

Rape isn't only committed by people who want to punish others. Rape is also committed by people who love the person they are raping. By this I do not mean to normalize rape as acceptable, but to say that only writing rape as being committed by someone thinking "I'll show that bitch!" ignores a lot of rape.

Yes, rape is committed by people with loads of different motivations. And the fact is that their motivations don't matter. Nothing the victim can have said or done and

[akashathekitty]

However, I wonder if fandom in general (in a huge speculative generalization!) has maybe taken to reading "warnings: rape" as a specific rape scenario? If that is the case, then maybe some authors use other terms to indicate no consent but to also indicate "not that specific rape scenario"?

I see rape/non-con warnings as "he or she is definitely, unequivocally saying NO, yet is somehow being forced".

If they say yes under false pretenses or even under some kinds of coercion (i.e. Pure Depravity, where Blaise makes Pansy sleep with him under the threat that he'll otherwise tell Draco about what had happened between them before, and she wants to even though she doesn't want to plus the threat really is relatively tame), I'll call it dub-con because while it's still arguably Bad and Rape, it's a different (and less intense/devastating to me) kind of Bad and Rape.