Symptom of Rape Culture?

[akashathekitty]

I'd really like as many as possible to comment on this, if you have the time/inclinations/a lot of feelings, okay?

It's about this story of mine. It's also available here if you aren't a member of H&V. In the Darkness, All Cats are Grey.

I just received a PM about that fic. Rather than summarize it, I will copy it in its entirety, leaving out who

Comments

[akashathekitty]

[Edited duplicate word]

I think their points about legal precedent should specify which legal system they are referring to - pointing out that there is precedent but also acknowledging that the precedent of that region is not necessarily a precedent everywhere and not law in all places (though hopefully in the future it will be!).

I didn't really care about the details, because my stance is that what is "dub-con" in fic shouldn't be legal IRL, anyway. Coercion is bad, no matter how you swing it. It's just different than physical subjugation and much more subtle.

Rape isn't only committed by people who want to punish others. Rape is also committed by people who love the person they are raping. By this I do not mean to normalize rape as acceptable, but to say that only writing rape as being committed by someone thinking "I'll show that bitch!" ignores a lot of rape.

Yes, rape is committed by people with loads of different motivations. And the fact is that their motivations don't matter. Nothing the victim can have said or done and no amount of ~feelings~ on the rapist's end makes it okay. It's common enough to be taught that rape isn't about the sex, though, and I do suppose that in many, many cases that is the truth.

I don't think you would be morally liable for rape committed by someone who read this specific fic. In terms of this specific story I feel the responsibility on whether to rape a person or not after reading it lies with the reader.

I agreed. That was an unfortunate piece of hyperbole on her part. Someone, who shall remain anonymous (see, ~the anons support me in e-mail~ ;)) was as a sexual assault victim offended at how this sentence removed the responsibility from the attacker and put it on someone simply writing a story (in this case, me). There's something to be said about personal responsibility. It is my personal belief that the less we make people feel responsible for their own damn actions, the more they will feel justified in just doing whatever the hell they please. A story is victimless, attacking someone isn't.

I don't really like the terms dub-con. I understand it, but how can something be rape and not rape?

I think that would take someone far more articulate than me to properly explain. All I can say is that I, personally, don't want to read the kind of rape where someone is hurt physically or afraid and crying or something like that. I prefer the skeevy push and pull and areas where it can be doubtful at times what the hell is going on.

One thing I would note about your reply is that using terms like "PC Police" is not helpful during discussions such as these. As well, I find the remarks of "as long as you don't act aggressively towards anyone who might disagree with you" to be unwarranted as they were civil in their PM to you.

Yeah, that does seem rather negative and I'm sorry about that. I use the term "PC Police" because I'm on a rather personal quest to make people see that being PC is a good thing, as it's about not hurting people, and not (as some people seem to think) about ridiculous and meaningless measures. IDK if one can be said to reclaim such a term as it's hardly oppressive, but I'm all for trying anyway. The "don't be aggressive" comment was mostly because I know how heated things can get when people run into opposing views on things they feel passionately about. I could easily see this post turning into a wank-fest, and my head hurts far too much for that. Also, she did leave off with the comment about me being accountable for my readers potentially being rapists and I do find that at least passive-aggressive, especially on top of the lecture.

[akashathekitty]

However, I wonder if fandom in general (in a huge speculative generalization!) has maybe taken to reading "warnings: rape" as a specific rape scenario? If that is the case, then maybe some authors use other terms to indicate no consent but to also indicate "not that specific rape scenario"?

I see rape/non-con warnings as "he or she is definitely, unequivocally saying NO, yet is somehow being forced".

If they say yes under false pretenses or even under some kinds of coercion (i.e. Pure Depravity, where Blaise makes Pansy sleep with him under the threat that he'll otherwise tell Draco about what had happened between them before, and she wants to even though she doesn't want to plus the threat really is relatively tame), I'll call it dub-con because while it's still arguably Bad and Rape, it's a different (and less intense/devastating to me) kind of Bad and Rape.

[akashathekitty]

You think "non-con" is minimizing, or?

Well, what I think I've learned is to warn at my own discretion but make sure that notes / summaries show exactly what the reader is getting themselves into.

[akashathekitty]

I think "non-con" is just a nicer term for "ugly rape". (Not that rape ever is pretty but... argh, you know what I mean!) Some people mind it because giving it a nicer term is distancing it from the very real implications (or something to that effect) but I just see them as the same thing.

[eevilalice]

Actually, I wonder if "non-con" is more precise a label than "rape." Rape may be too open to interpretation for readers in a weird way.

[akashathekitty]

Huh. Oddly, I get what you're saying. I think. Like, in my mind:

Rape = non-con
&
Rape = dub-con
but
non-con ≠ dub-con

Where the lines are drawn is obviously a point of contention, though.

[eevilalice]

Something like that.

[eevilalice]

Yes, perhaps. I also think "non-con" may be more denotative rather than connotative. But I'm probably full of crap. I just mean, for me it has less associations; it's colder. "Rape" has a crapload of associations, for me, for everyone, and those all may be different, like you say. But maybe others see "non-con" the same way?