Fan - damn - tastic!cynical21October 30 2007, 00:22:42 UTC
I think it's long past time that a gifted author - and you sure fill that bill beautifully - explored this possibility; the idea that one or the other partner might prefer to TOP or to BOTTOM but that such a desire has absolutely nothing to do with being manly or girly. Don't all of us have sexual preferences - what we like and dislike, what we want and don't want. Why should gay men - or gays in general - be any different, and why shoould such preferences lock the person in question into a role he's not comfortable in playing. For that matter, there are plenty of men who like to be dominated, and plenty of women who like to wield that power - none of which qualifies as 'unnatural'. This is a splendid plotline, Vicki, and a wonderful perception of what Jack and Ennis could be together.
Re: Fan - damn - tastic!cynical21October 30 2007, 02:59:05 UTC
Nice observations, Ted - and you do have the advantage of being more intimately familiar with male physiology. Plus, I too can sympathize with Jack wishing for Ennis to experience the sensations that he experiences in being 'fuckee rather than fucker'. But I do know a number of gay couples - several who are very good friends - who seem to fit this profile. Now granted, we don't do much sitting around discussing the intimate details of their relationships, but neither is the subject verboten, and they do drop hints occasionally, and none of us get embarrassed about it. People do have preferences. For example - just a minor point - I have a friend, a lovely, voluptuous woman whom I've known for 20 years, who has been involved with a handsome, virile man for the last decade. They are a passionate couple, neither unwilling to explore their sexuality, and yet, as confessed to me on many occasions, she does not like having him fondle, kiss, or otherwise manipulate her breasts. I have to tell you that when she told me that for the first time
( ... )
Re: Fan - damn - tastic!vln_bbmfanOctober 30 2007, 04:09:26 UTC
For whatever reason, it just turns her off.
Thanks for sharing that, CYN. Sometimes that's the way it is, with no real rhyme or reason. It's what makes us all individuals. I think that when it comes to sex, most of us have something that just doesn't do it for us. Doesn't make that particular act wrong for anyone but us, and having a partner that accepts this is just as important as accepting it for ourselves, IMHO.
Re: Fan - damn - tastic!dontwanttosaygbOctober 31 2007, 02:51:18 UTC
Hi Cyn,
Thanks so much for not minding me tagging on your comment. I just thought it all tied in together. And sorry Vicky for hopping on your journal to talk to Cyn. LOL! Apologies all round. In any case I was surprised you knew about the OTHER forum mess, but alas there is a mess there right now. Hopefully things work out. In any case, it was just after I had made a long, long post about LE, that we were modded again, so we were just about to delve into your story when the conversation went dead, but I would be honoured and pleased to post some comments to your journal. I have wanted to but am trying to make some time with RL. As you know, your story fascinates me.
I want to respond to your comment to my comment to Vicky and also Vicky`s further comments so I`ll do it all in one section, so look for the conversation there. Thanks to both of you for engaging it.
Re: Fan - damn - tastic!vln_bbmfanOctober 31 2007, 03:41:05 UTC
No apologies necessary, Ted. Your comments to Cyn or to anyone else are more than welcome here. I enjoy reading your comments, whether they directly pertain to my story or not. You always have such insightful things to say, and from the male POV. The fanfiction world seems to be more saturated with women than men, or at least we talk more than you guys do. Not sure what OTHER forum or what mess has been going on there, but I do know that sometimes discussions can get very harsh. That's why I tend to avoid them for the most part. I hope I don't miss out on anything you have to say in reference to the comments to this story. Hearing diverse POVs is not only refreshing, it is a learning experience, too. And a great way to make friends. :-)
Re: Fan - damn - tastic!dontwanttosaygbOctober 31 2007, 03:46:09 UTC
Hi Vicky, Thanks so much for the replies and also for not seeing them as having any malice. That is just not me. I was quite sure you wouldn’t mind some thoughts as I love your wonderful feedback and constructive comments on my stories that you give.
Firstly, I am so happy with your responses as I have been having a struggle with this story for the last while but am now feeling a million times better, not that I was not enjoying it, but just struggling with the top-bottom theme. I am happy that as you say, Ellie is not an expert and in fact she was just trying to get Jack to maybe not focus so much on this, and give him a bit of ego boost, as he did need that. I seen it that way but now understand better. But I can truly see where some of Jack’s insecurities around this come from and some are justified, IMO, because it continues to show that Ennis is not there yet in his understanding of himself.
I was much thrilled to read this comment but if Jack (she's not really aware of Ennis' issues) could relax and quit trying to force
( ... )
Re: Fan - damn - tastic!vln_bbmfanNovember 1 2007, 04:22:23 UTC
Communication is definitely the key. My husband and I dated long distance for almost two years. In fact, after we got engaged, he was shocked when I told him that we had only actually spent 29 days together in all that time. Not much more than Jack and Ennis would have had in two years, but we had what they did not - communication in between meetings. I know for a fact that I talked on the phone more during those two years than I did in the other 27 yrs of my life. We have talked about it a couple of times, mainly because the opportunity to date had been there before he left town, but we didn't get together until afterwards, and we are both in total agreement that even if we could go back and change it, we wouldn't. It was a hellish two years, but we were forced to develop communications habits that have made our relationship much stronger than it ever could have been if we had never had that forced time apart
( ... )
Re: Fan - damn - tastic!vln_bbmfanOctober 30 2007, 03:57:42 UTC
This wasn't an issued I tackled lightly, and I knew it would be one of those things were some thought I got it right and some didn't and some would think I had no right to tackle it. To me that is a good thing, because that's what life is like, for the most part. I think that we are all like that to some extent when it comes to sex; some things are just more pleasurable than others, and some things could be more pleasurable if we didn't have our own hang-ups to deal with. That doesn't make any of us right or wrong, just who we are. We are all products of our environment, and Jack and Ennis had some pretty extreme environments that formed their ideals and attitudes. They are learning and growing and making mistakes together, something they didn't get to do in the OS. :-)
Bravo, Friend.
CYN
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Thanks for sharing that, CYN. Sometimes that's the way it is, with no real rhyme or reason. It's what makes us all individuals.
I think that when it comes to sex, most of us have something that just doesn't do it for us. Doesn't make that particular act wrong for anyone but us, and having a partner that accepts this is just as important as accepting it for ourselves, IMHO.
Reply
Thanks so much for not minding me tagging on your comment. I just thought it all tied in together. And sorry Vicky for hopping on your journal to talk to Cyn. LOL! Apologies all round. In any case I was surprised you knew about the OTHER forum mess, but alas there is a mess there right now. Hopefully things work out. In any case, it was just after I had made a long, long post about LE, that we were modded again, so we were just about to delve into your story when the conversation went dead, but I would be honoured and pleased to post some comments to your journal. I have wanted to but am trying to make some time with RL. As you know, your story fascinates me.
I want to respond to your comment to my comment to Vicky and also Vicky`s further comments so I`ll do it all in one section, so look for the conversation there. Thanks to both of you for engaging it.
Cheers, Ted
Reply
Not sure what OTHER forum or what mess has been going on there, but I do know that sometimes discussions can get very harsh. That's why I tend to avoid them for the most part. I hope I don't miss out on anything you have to say in reference to the comments to this story. Hearing diverse POVs is not only refreshing, it is a learning experience, too.
And a great way to make friends. :-)
Reply
Reply
Reply
Thanks so much for the replies and also for not seeing them as having any malice. That is just not me. I was quite sure you wouldn’t mind some thoughts as I love your wonderful feedback and constructive comments on my stories that you give.
Firstly, I am so happy with your responses as I have been having a struggle with this story for the last while but am now feeling a million times better, not that I was not enjoying it, but just struggling with the top-bottom theme. I am happy that as you say, Ellie is not an expert and in fact she was just trying to get Jack to maybe not focus so much on this, and give him a bit of ego boost, as he did need that. I seen it that way but now understand better. But I can truly see where some of Jack’s insecurities around this come from and some are justified, IMO, because it continues to show that Ennis is not there yet in his understanding of himself.
I was much thrilled to read this comment but if Jack (she's not really aware of Ennis' issues) could relax and quit trying to force ( ... )
Reply
Reply
Reply
Reply
I think that we are all like that to some extent when it comes to sex; some things are just more pleasurable than others, and some things could be more pleasurable if we didn't have our own hang-ups to deal with. That doesn't make any of us right or wrong, just who we are. We are all products of our environment, and Jack and Ennis had some pretty extreme environments that formed their ideals and attitudes. They are learning and growing and making mistakes together, something they didn't get to do in the OS. :-)
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