really, best not. they have another book called "a marvellous work and a wonder" which i always liked the title of.
as far as i remember the mormons believe that jesus visited america in a submarine, but maybe i dreamed it.
my brother was young enough not to have a real choice, and not only went to church and was baptised and all that, but also served a mission. his take on it now is that mormons in utah are a lot more relaxed and cool with their religion than those in outposts. that, and my recently divorced mother went for a real 'zeal of the converted' take on it. so what i didn't dream was her harshness in those years.
ok, ship doesn't have quite the same loony ring to it as submarine, but at least i was half listening...
Yeah, it's really hard to read. But then, I read a lot of kabbalistic stuff which is extremely hard to read as well. Some trouble seems to stem from the fact that people who write religious books often try to imitate an ancient style, and thus the wording gets very awkward. You know, "And thus it came to pass, and Joseph said unto Moses..." Also, they revel in vague allusions which makes reading even worse.
well, and also my take on it is that it is very much *madey uppy rubbish* which, admittedly, is partly prejudice, but also because mormons believe it is literally the truth, and i believe it literally isn't.
the USP of buddhism, for me, is that it is about enlightenment and your journey therein, and not about believing something which seems entirely to be about the suspension of disbelief
( ... )
I personally don't believe in that the "literal meaning" of any scripture can be established - and I'm not even talking buddhism here, just basic common sense. The aforementioned "many rooms in my father's house" are obviously a metaphor - and it is quite easy to come to the conclusion that most words are undefined or poorly defined. So what's the truth that people are referring to as "literal
( ... )
well, the idea that jesus went to america for a start, and the subsequent "truth" that joseph smith was given these scriptures by an angel to translate and then the angel came back and took them back off him.
they also believe that the whole of the bible is literal truth and not a metaphor, and that evolution is a huge lie.
one thing that used to really annoy me but now i find rather touching, is that mormons baptise the dead.
do converts have to get the chop as well? eek! (that's gotta hurt.
i have never had a glimpse of the fabled tantra. i haven't had a relationship with a buddhist or even near-buddhist. i like the idea of it, though!
Yes they do. Judaism is deliberately designed to make conversion as hard as possible - that's because jews have made the experience, over and over again, that converts are the first to re-convert at the first sign of pressure from the outside, and then become the fiercest anti-semites.
one thing that used to really annoy me but now i find rather touching, is that mormons baptise the dead.
The enormous multitude of religious rituals never cease to astound me! It means that someone can find truth even after death, right?
i have never had a glimpse of the fabled tantra.
Hehe... I experienced the basics. What would you expect of it, if you were to give it a try?
... Something just came to me. You know, the sheer idea that freedom, enlightenment, is indeed possible, and the fact that all my current experienes seem to point to this being actually the case... I mean, WOW! If I stop to think about all the implications, this is pretty mind-blowing hardcore stuff!
Re:the quick and the deade4qOctober 19 2007, 15:12:56 UTC
well, that is one way of making sure people are committed, i guess.
it used to annoy me that people would be baptised without their permission - someone of the same gender stands in for the dead person. it pissed me off that if i died the mormons could have their way with me. but although i still think they are crazy hoops there is one thing about it that i sort of do believe. if, after death, there is no linear time, then that means that it might be worth healing the past. and not just your own past either. i had a brief episode of practicing tonglen. it was then that the thought that if you could potentially lessen the suffering of others through this practice, and i am not saying you definitely can, but if you can, then why would it need to be people in your own slice of time or the future
( ... )
Re:the quick and the deadvijenoOctober 22 2007, 09:42:21 UTC
I remember I was extremely annoyed when my mother started doing evangelization on my grandma a few years before her death (who used to be a fierce socialist and atheist for most of her life) -- I guess what annoyed me the most was the fact that she succeeded. It made me think, how about myself? Will I fall for some well-meaning evangelist as well
( ... )
Re:deathbed change of hearte4qOctober 22 2007, 14:34:12 UTC
i think it is worth learning things even on your deathbed, in fact, i hope i do. imminent mortality is bound to make you think a bit, and even if you don't have access to concepts which match your own feelings exactly then it's still quite good if whatever it is helps you to make sense of what is, after all, a pretty unfamiliar scenario
( ... )
Re:deathbed change of heartvijenoOctober 23 2007, 12:16:12 UTC
Talking about tantra and sexual knowledge, maybe it's best to think of this as a temporary solution. A crutch for the crutch, pardon the pun. You use it to get more in touch with your own desires, feelings and needs, and then you slowly start unlearning it again, and learn something else instead. Isn't it a great example of impermanence? Maybe another way to frame it is this: It is important to learn, and it's equally important to keep in mind what you're learning it for... it's for the pleasure of your body, the fulfilment of your soul, and ultimately "enlightenment." How intensely do you believe that sexual healing and sensual pleasuring are a step on the way to nirvana
( ... )
Re: learning and unlearninge4qOctober 23 2007, 19:10:34 UTC
interesting! i know that from other things... i never thought what happens after tantra.
i certainly feel quite strongly about sex, but i hadn't thought of it as being a meditational practice as such. although, i don't see why not, after all, i certainly have had quite strong experiences even from, for instance, mindfulness of breathing.
i think, for women, often, talking, particularly during sex leads away from the moment. my feelings about it are quite contrary. i don't want to speak but i like to be spoken to, but it is better for there to be no speaking than for it to be 'wrong'.
i am currently separated from my partner, not because of relationship difficulties as such, but it has been a while and i almost can't imagine it now. so the whole question of what it could< be is completely academic for now.
Re: learning and unlearningvijenoOctober 24 2007, 09:43:44 UTC
Well, one tantric exercise is that you just visualize your breath streaming from your yoni up through the spine into your brain on inhaling - and then down through your forefront to the yoni again (and isn't it great to have such a mystical word for your genitals? I find this much more respectful than pussy, or even vagina.) ... With a partner, you can create a circle of breath through both of your bodies... You can also do it on your own if you like, of course. ;-) Hehe.
And you know, about questions being academic and such... everything changes! *g*
i had forgotten about doing that kind of breathing - do you know, i am quite daft, because i was told about that breathing technique in association with masturbation, so i practiced it for a long time on my own, but never thought of bringing it in to sex!
i am going to reinstate it, and if i ever do manage to have sex with another person again i will endeavour to remember to bring it in!
well, i sincerely hope that things do change, though exactly what things i will leave to the universe, since i can't control EVERYTHING!!!
they backed down from that, as well as from their former take on black people who couldn't join the priesthood (as ALL white males would do at an early age)
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And I admit, I am always curious about minority religions, such as the mormons. (I started to read the Book of Mormon once, but didn't get very far.)
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as far as i remember the mormons believe that jesus visited america in a submarine, but maybe i dreamed it.
my brother was young enough not to have a real choice, and not only went to church and was baptised and all that, but also served a mission. his take on it now is that mormons in utah are a lot more relaxed and cool with their religion than those in outposts. that, and my recently divorced mother went for a real 'zeal of the converted' take on it. so what i didn't dream was her harshness in those years.
ok, ship doesn't have quite the same loony ring to it as submarine, but at least i was half listening...
Reply
Yeah, it's really hard to read. But then, I read a lot of kabbalistic stuff which is extremely hard to read as well. Some trouble seems to stem from the fact that people who write religious books often try to imitate an ancient style, and thus the wording gets very awkward. You know, "And thus it came to pass, and Joseph said unto Moses..." Also, they revel in vague allusions which makes reading even worse.
I don't even like polyamory that much... :-)
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the USP of buddhism, for me, is that it is about enlightenment and your journey therein, and not about believing something which seems entirely to be about the suspension of disbelief ( ... )
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they also believe that the whole of the bible is literal truth and not a metaphor, and that evolution is a huge lie.
one thing that used to really annoy me but now i find rather touching, is that mormons baptise the dead.
do converts have to get the chop as well? eek!
(that's gotta hurt.
i have never had a glimpse of the fabled tantra. i haven't had a relationship with a buddhist or even near-buddhist. i like the idea of it, though!
Reply
Yes they do. Judaism is deliberately designed to make conversion as hard as possible - that's because jews have made the experience, over and over again, that converts are the first to re-convert at the first sign of pressure from the outside, and then become the fiercest anti-semites.
one thing that used to really annoy me but now i find rather touching, is that mormons baptise the dead.
The enormous multitude of religious rituals never cease to astound me! It means that someone can find truth even after death, right?
i have never had a glimpse of the fabled tantra.
Hehe... I experienced the basics. What would you expect of it, if you were to give it a try?
... Something just came to me. You know, the sheer idea that freedom, enlightenment, is indeed possible, and the fact that all my current experienes seem to point to this being actually the case... I mean, WOW! If I stop to think about all the implications, this is pretty mind-blowing hardcore stuff!
Reply
it used to annoy me that people would be baptised without their permission - someone of the same gender stands in for the dead person. it pissed me off that if i died the mormons could have their way with me. but although i still think they are crazy hoops there is one thing about it that i sort of do believe. if, after death, there is no linear time, then that means that it might be worth healing the past. and not just your own past either. i had a brief episode of practicing tonglen. it was then that the thought that if you could potentially lessen the suffering of others through this practice, and i am not saying you definitely can, but if you can, then why would it need to be people in your own slice of time or the future ( ... )
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i certainly feel quite strongly about sex, but i hadn't thought of it as being a meditational practice as such. although, i don't see why not, after all, i certainly have had quite strong experiences even from, for instance, mindfulness of breathing.
i think, for women, often, talking, particularly during sex leads away from the moment. my feelings about it are quite contrary. i don't want to speak but i like to be spoken to, but it is better for there to be no speaking than for it to be 'wrong'.
i am currently separated from my partner, not because of relationship difficulties as such, but it has been a while and i almost can't imagine it now. so the whole question of what it could< be is completely academic for now.
Reply
And you know, about questions being academic and such... everything changes! *g*
Reply
i am going to reinstate it, and if i ever do manage to have sex with another person again i will endeavour to remember to bring it in!
well, i sincerely hope that things do change, though exactly what things i will leave to the universe, since i can't control EVERYTHING!!!
Reply
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