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ibroketuesday September 19 2009, 04:17:59 UTC
..honestly? I whacked pause after "I did it all for you" so I could wail. YES, I AM NOW THE KIND OF CRAZY OTPER WHO LAMENTS OTHER SHIPS GETTING ANY SUBTEXT.

MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA

YOU CALL THAT SUBTEXT? XDDD

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theoret September 19 2009, 12:50:47 UTC
YES, YES I DO.

Okay, fine, Castiel's devotion to Dean is text. But either of them wanting to stick their dicks into the other because of it is still entirely SUBtextual. :P

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ibroketuesday September 19 2009, 21:26:54 UTC
Well, clearly, because textually, Castiel is likely asexual and Dean is straight. Just like, textually, that's extremely brotherly love... XD

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theoret September 19 2009, 23:53:26 UTC
IT IS ALSO TEXT THAT DEAN WANTS HIS BROTHER MORE THAN SOME GIRL IN A G-STRING.

Okay, yes, the "...sexually" of that is also subtext. BUT ONLY JUST BARELY.

TBH, the subtext is the best thing about the show. Mmmm... subtextual.

(Now I wish I'd snagged a copy of that icon that says "subtext is what Sam writes in spit across Dean's back when they're fucking". Because it's still funny. And also oh so appropriate for this conversation!)

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ibroketuesday September 20 2009, 00:04:31 UTC
So we have lots of canon platonic love and gay subtext. WE SHOULD JUST ALL BE HAPPY. :P

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theoret September 20 2009, 00:14:55 UTC
I know.

Dammit, in smallcaps' analogy, I am totally the homophobe who recognises that that is not cool, and is pro-gay rights, but who still can't shake their lingering uncomfortableness.

I DO NOT WANT BE A METAPHORICAL HOMOPHOBE. D: Damn you, Kripke! This is all your fault! Somehow! I never used to be a metaphorical ship homophobe. *pokes self*

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ibroketuesday September 20 2009, 00:26:46 UTC
I understand, though. Sometimes I feel the same way about hardcore Castiel/Anna shippers. NO. CASTIEL CARES THE MOSTEST ABOUT DEAN. And then I facepalm at myself. But with Wincest, Sam is always going to be Dean's favorite person ever, and Dean/Castiel won't ever be canon, so I'm curious where the uncomfortableness is coming from on your part. You can explain your mindset and I won't mock or h8 you, I promise.

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theoret September 20 2009, 12:42:23 UTC
Ahaha, okay, I love that you feel that way about hardcore Castiel/Anna shippers. xD *amused ( ... )

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ibroketuesday September 21 2009, 10:43:47 UTC
It's not so much the fact that the ship is out there (I even ship it a little myself, hahahaha oops), but that I periodically worry about it becoming canon. That would sadden me. Heh, it's very difficult not to get ridiculous about one's ships. Shipping comes with an implied emotional investment. :P

I mean, firstly there's just my knee-jerk DDD: at the Winchesters being in love/ending up together with anyone but each other. I can kind of handle it if they also love each other, but there are reasons in the story which make them choose the other person, as long as the story is presented as UTTERLY TRAGIC, because sometimes I do like to break my own heart. But other than that I mostly avoid non-wincest pairings unless it's just casual sex.

Yep. No need to explain this, it's pretty typical.

Which I found UTTERLY TRAUMATIZING, and then never read Dean/Castiel again.

Hahaha aw <3 Yeah, honestly? Most Dean/Cas writers that I've seen care about Sam (there's one obvious exception, some bitch who posts every single fic with the disclaimer " ( ... )

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theoret September 20 2009, 12:42:33 UTC
Then there's the fact that - and this is entitled and fanbrattish, but I can't help it - the fandom used to look a bit like this:
Sam/Dean some other pairings
and now it looks a bit like this:
Sam/Dean Dean/Castiel some other pairings
and I'm used to almost all of the fandom being relevant to my interests, so having a whole section of fandom not catering to your interests, having to scroll past Dean/Castiel recs posts, or whatever, does leave this lingering feeling of "...y'know, I liked it better when I was the centre of the universe. :/". WHICH IS SUCH A FANBRAT THING TO FEEL.

Although I did want the newsletter to get a Dean/Castiel section, unlike some other Wincest fans, and I was a whole lot more laid back about it back then. I guess the reason why I have suddenly got super-defensive about my shipping now is that I think Dean is actually getting more emotionally healthy, especially wrt his relationship with Sam. I mean, we saw Dean choose the well being of a group of innocent people over Sam's well being last episode, and there ( ... )

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ibroketuesday September 21 2009, 10:54:14 UTC
"...y'know, I liked it better when I was the centre of the universe. :/"

LAWL THIS PART I HAVE NO SYMPATHY WITH. I mean, I come across that attitude a lot, but where at least you're reasonable with it, I have had people say to me THE ENTIRE FANDOM SHOULD SHIP SAM/DEAN AND SHIPPING DEAN/CASTIEL IS A ~BETRAYAL~ and it's like... seriously? Why do you care what floats my boat? Anyhow. The newsletter thing! Honestly, I don't subscribe to the newsletter, but it makes sense to give Dean/Castiel its own section - not for the Dean/Castiel fans, they're just fine. It's the fans of actual Other Slash! Sometimes I want Uriel/Castiel and someone else might Sam/Adam or YED/John, and those should be buried amongst 20 Dean/Castiel fics.

Hmm. I agree on one point - Dean isn't unhealthily codependent to the extent that he was. However, Sam is still Dean's everything. He's still his #1 and that's not ever gonna change. The difficulties they're suffering right now are just them finally getting all the issues last season gave them out in the open, so ( ... )

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