Hm.

[selenak]

I.) Last night I was at the opera. This year, the Munich opera did the entire Ring and last night they showed the final part, the Götterdämmerung. Unfortunately, after the three previous productions were all well sung and imaginatively staged (the first production in which bringing masses of people who aren't in the script on stage actually worked

Comments

[selenak]

I hear you. I feel like a tennis ball bouncing to and throw - the A/M only bunch annoy me, I wander off in search of the Gwen fandom, then there is nothing but "the show should DIE" etc. when I love the show (and the characters), so I back off there again.

And Morgana. Exactly. I want to read about them encountering each other post-s4 too but what I've read mostly minimizes Morgana's actions so that they will reconcile. Annoying also is how there is so much justification for Morgana's actions.

That's a general symptom not only relating to Morgana's actions towards Gwen, but really applies here. Bringing me back to my deceased equine about woobies where everything they do is always someone else's fault or did not happen because denial; Morgana is one of the rare female examples. There is only so much you can blame the late Uther (or the alive Gaius, or Merlin) for, which btw was a crucial point of the scene between Morgana and Arthur in 4.13. They both are responsible for their own actions now. And certainly everything Morgana did

[selenak]

With regards to 4x09 and 4x11, the Gwen fandom squarely places the blame on Arthur and Merlin.Which is absolutely baffling. Merlin spoke up for Gwen in 4x09, was apparantly the only one to see her off, kept speaking up for her and in 4x11 after realising what must have happened went looking for her and saved her life. (It also seems sending her to his mother was his idea, though I could be wrong, I'd have to rewatch his dialogue with Hunith when he asks how Gwen is.) As for Arthur, while I'd agree that banishing Gwen was wrong, it's not even in the same league of wrong as taking her consent away and essentially mindraping her which is what Morgana did to her when using the love spell. And changing her into a hind so she'd be hunted and killed was the type of powermad sadism that's straight from the Greek gods and Ovid

[nomadicwriter]

I'm not in Merlin fandom apart from the occasional drive-by fic reading, but man, this brings back all the flashbacks to my time in Stargate SG-1 fandom. "We loved Carter in the first three seasons, but after season four they started writing her really badly, in some mysterious and ill-defined way that of course has absolutely nothing to do with her being shipped with Jack, and ever since then she's been a terrible character and totally defined by her love life. (You know, due to that episode where it was acknowledged she and Jack have a mutual attraction they're both too professional to act on

[selenak]

Erm, sorry, venting there. It's the faux feminist angle that infuriates me the most, along with its sister argument, "Well, the only reason I hate, bash and deliberately exclude every single female character across all of my fandoms is because they're bad characters with no personality written by men who can't write women. (Incidentally, have you read my 100,000 word slash epic about two male background characters who have three lines between them across the entire run of the show?)"

Vent away. It all sounds dreadfully familiar from all too many fandoms.

[violaswamp]

Yeah, precisely. The "underdeveloped" or "no personality" argument makes no sense because fandom ADORES underdeveloped characters with no personality provided that they're male. Indeed, much of fanfic basically exists to flesh out characters who are either poorly or sketchily written.

If I were going to write Merlin fic, which I'm not, I'd want to write about Gwen, precisely because she is underdeveloped and denied agency and power. I have serious issues with the way she's been presented as the sole woman of color on the cast. For me, her character skitters uncomfortably close to a white-dominated society's fantasy of a powerless, non-threatening, nurturing, forgiving woman of color whose main function is to cheerlead or emotionally support the white characters. Perhaps now that she's Queen on the show, that might change. I look forward to finding out, anyway.

But that's a Doylist problem, not a Watsonian one, and it leaves me with no desire to bash Gwen herself. (Her writers, possibly, but that's a different story).

[a_g_doren]

If I were going to write Merlin fic, which I'm not, I'd want to write about Gwen, precisely because she is underdeveloped and denied agency and power. I have serious issues with the way she's been presented as the sole woman of color on the cast. For me, her character skitters uncomfortably close to a white-dominated society's fantasy of a powerless, non-threatening, nurturing, forgiving woman of color whose main function is to cheerlead or emotionally support the white characters. Perhaps now that she's Queen on the show, that might change. I look forward to finding out, anyway.

But that's a Doylist problem, not a Watsonian one, and it leaves me with no desire to bash Gwen herself. (Her writers, possibly, but that's a different story)I would have a problem with Gwen's character on the show if she weren't the main love interest, written attractively and willing to confront Arthur and call him on his shit. If she wasn't these things she would be a mammy/spiritual negro. As it is she is black woman who also happens to be the damsel in

[jontinf]

Rubberglue led me to your post, and as strange as it may sound, I wanted to thank you for your refreshing and genuinely rare outlook on the show, particularly in terms of Morgana’s greater culpability in 4x09 and how fandom seems to implicitly erase it because she’s a female character. I remember seeing a Merlin confession once talking about the cruelty of Morgana’s actions, and the response was, “But this episode is about Arthur’s abuse of power.” I don’t understand why fandom can’t address both and at least put Merlin and Arthur’s actions into perspective. Especially Merlin's, who is the show’s POV character

[selenak]

Thank you. Have you read zahrawithaz's Merlin meta? It's terrific, and excellent especially for Gwen's and Morgana's characters (she's another who finds Morgana fascinating but doesn't woobify her), proving that you can analyze the show and point out flaws while also loving the strengths, and she's wonderful at spotting visual and storytelling cues bringing in elements of the various myth versions.

[jontinf]

She's brilliant. Her insights and the information she brings to episodes are so interesting. Another wonderful meta writer like yourself. Thanks.

[a_g_doren]

I have my corner of Merlin fandom and I stick to it. It is a very small place with only a very few writers. I don't think I've ever read a fic that would fit 1 or 2 unless some jack-ass posted it where it didn't belong which has happened

[thornyrose42]

Morgana did love Gwen, but she also made Gwen's father's death much more about her own relationship with Uthur rather than about her friend's grief. I'll definitely agree that Morgana's transition to Evil!TM was badly handled, but there is a continuity between Morgana's actions and attitudes in the first two seasons and her attitudes and actions in the later two.

[violaswamp]

For me the most annoying faux feminist element of Merlin fandom is how Morgana has been touted as The Canon Proto-Feminist, when if anything it's Gwen who deserves that title.

But yes, downplaying Gwen to promote Merlin/Arthur is (1) OOC for both Merlin and Arthur, and (2) a waste of a perfectly good OT3.

[thornyrose42]

Such a good OT3...

Someday... someday we will have a scene where Arthur is flanked in state by his Queen and Court Wizard and I will be extremely happy.

I feel that Morgana would have problems with the bit of feminism which states that it is for everyone, not just the people you love.

[selenak]

I really don't recommend OT3s for just any constellation. But in the case of Arthur/Gwen/Merlin it works for me because they fit my criteria, which are:

a) all three members of an OT3 have to deeply care about the other two. It doesn't work it's just a case of X and Y loving Z and putting up with each other for Z's sake; that's a triangle. X and Y need to have their own strong bond, and Z must have strong relationships with both X and Y, not a strong one with one of them and a weak one with the other.

b) I have to believe these people are good at both challenging each other and making each other happy. Love/hate scenarios work for some couples. (Err, imo, as always.) But not for a threesome. For too much danger for one party to end up more on the hated scale.

And that's why the show has sold me on Arthur/Gwen/Merlin. *hearts them*