Hm.

[selenak]

I.) Last night I was at the opera. This year, the Munich opera did the entire Ring and last night they showed the final part, the Götterdämmerung. Unfortunately, after the three previous productions were all well sung and imaginatively staged (the first production in which bringing masses of people who aren't in the script on stage actually worked

Comments

[nomadicwriter]

I'm not in Merlin fandom apart from the occasional drive-by fic reading, but man, this brings back all the flashbacks to my time in Stargate SG-1 fandom. "We loved Carter in the first three seasons, but after season four they started writing her really badly, in some mysterious and ill-defined way that of course has absolutely nothing to do with her being shipped with Jack, and ever since then she's been a terrible character and totally defined by her love life. (You know, due to that episode where it was acknowledged she and Jack have a mutual attraction they're both too professional to act on.)"

Erm, sorry, venting there. It's the faux feminist angle that infuriates me the most, along with its sister argument, "Well, the only reason I hate, bash and deliberately exclude every single female character across all of my fandoms is because they're bad characters with no personality written by men who can't write women. (Incidentally, have you read my 100,000 word slash epic about two male background characters who have three lines between them across the entire run of the show?)"

Gah.

[selenak]

Erm, sorry, venting there. It's the faux feminist angle that infuriates me the most, along with its sister argument, "Well, the only reason I hate, bash and deliberately exclude every single female character across all of my fandoms is because they're bad characters with no personality written by men who can't write women. (Incidentally, have you read my 100,000 word slash epic about two male background characters who have three lines between them across the entire run of the show?)"

Vent away. It all sounds dreadfully familiar from all too many fandoms.

[violaswamp]

Yeah, precisely. The "underdeveloped" or "no personality" argument makes no sense because fandom ADORES underdeveloped characters with no personality provided that they're male. Indeed, much of fanfic basically exists to flesh out characters who are either poorly or sketchily written.

If I were going to write Merlin fic, which I'm not, I'd want to write about Gwen, precisely because she is underdeveloped and denied agency and power. I have serious issues with the way she's been presented as the sole woman of color on the cast. For me, her character skitters uncomfortably close to a white-dominated society's fantasy of a powerless, non-threatening, nurturing, forgiving woman of color whose main function is to cheerlead or emotionally support the white characters. Perhaps now that she's Queen on the show, that might change. I look forward to finding out, anyway.

But that's a Doylist problem, not a Watsonian one, and it leaves me with no desire to bash Gwen herself. (Her writers, possibly, but that's a different story).

[a_g_doren]

If I were going to write Merlin fic, which I'm not, I'd want to write about Gwen, precisely because she is underdeveloped and denied agency and power. I have serious issues with the way she's been presented as the sole woman of color on the cast. For me, her character skitters uncomfortably close to a white-dominated society's fantasy of a powerless, non-threatening, nurturing, forgiving woman of color whose main function is to cheerlead or emotionally support the white characters. Perhaps now that she's Queen on the show, that might change. I look forward to finding out, anyway.

But that's a Doylist problem, not a Watsonian one, and it leaves me with no desire to bash Gwen herself. (Her writers, possibly, but that's a different story)

I would have a problem with Gwen's character on the show if she weren't the main love interest, written attractively and willing to confront Arthur and call him on his shit. If she wasn't these things she would be a mammy/spiritual negro. As it is she is black woman who also happens to be the damsel in distress and I love it. I've never seen a show with a black woman as the damsel in distress to be cared for and rescued etc...

I rarely actually have strong negative feelings about characters mainly because I feel most characters can be well written,well developed and liked in their role be it hero or villain. Writers,developers, producers on the other hand get the full brunt of my displeasure.

[violaswamp]

Yeah, as a WOC myself I have very mixed feelings about the progress involved in letting a black woman be the damsel in distress.

Because you're right, it is novel! And it is progress, of a limited type, but I still want more. Why can't Gwen be cared for and rescued but still have power and agency and not be perpetually nurturing, serving, listening and forgiving?

[thornyrose42]

Personally, Gwen works for me as a character because, while she has had her "damsel" moments, I feel that ultimately her arc throughout the series has been growth towards taking on the role of Queen of Camelot, with the responsibilities that status entails. I feel that it is significant that while Gwen and Arthur are now married, it is not their wedding which is emphasised, indeed we never see it on screen, instead we are twice shown Gwen's coronation.

Now, there are, of course, issues with the position of Queen from a feminist perspective because it is still a role in which a women is subservient to a man. And here this is perhaps particularly worrisome because this case involves Gwen and Arthur, a black woman and a white man.

But I do feel that, particularly as imagined with in this show's universe, it is a position with definite power and agency. However, it is a "feminized" type of power because it draws upon historical precedent. (Though of course this is then filtered through the Merlin patented historical funhouse mirror). So, historically the queen was the ultimate intermediary between the king and his subjects. Queens through out the ages have been characterised by their peace making skills, it was an ideal of queenship, but it was also a practical force within the running of the kingdom. An awful lot of manuscripts describe queens suing for the life of a condemned person. Of course, an awful lot of manuscripts also get extremely irate when a queen chooses to perpetuate rather than pacify a conflict. As I say, I'm not trying to make out that the position of queen is some sort of feminist ideal, it isn't, it is still a prescriptive set of stereotypes with are applied to women.

But I would say that, within the context of the show, Gwen is shown as increasing in power and agency through out the show. selenak detailed some of the main points at the conclusion of her post. Her intercession for Gaius is of particular note because there is a clear correlation, whether the script writers intended it or not, between her actions in that scene and those of the medieval queens who pleaded for the lives of their subjects.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that, it might not be perfect, but personally I appreciate that Gwen's power and agency doesn't come from magic or physical prowess, it stems from her nurturing, serving, listening and forgiving. And she will be a truly excellent queen because of those qualities.

[violaswamp]

I agree that the queen role has potential for giving Gwen more power and agency. I hope that's where the show is going with it.

I don't think Gwen's nurturing/forgiving/serving gives her power, though. So far she has no power, except what Arthur feels like giving her at any given moment. Now that she's queen, which is an institutional role that can't be taken away on a whim, that may (and should) change.

[thornyrose42]

But she only gained that institutional role through qualities such as her listening to the people and speaking truth to power, something which Arthur articulates in his explanation to Agravaine as to why Gwen will make an excellent Queen.

I agree that it is problematic, even as Queen Gwen's power still derives from her relationship to Arthur, but on the other hand she has earned what influence and agency she has through being her loyal, perceptive and nurturing self.

I don't know, as you say it is problematic that Gwen is one of the few main characters that has no "outside power" as it were. Merlin and Morgana have their magic, Arthur has his status and physical prowess... arguably Gaius is also an example of one of the servant characters whose power in court is reliant upon how much power the higher class characters are willing to give him. And, like Gwen, this power has been taken away from him at several points in the series.

And yet I can't help but see Gwen's journey as a positive one where as she gains in confidence her qualities are recognised and lead to her attaining greater power because of them.

But obviously, your mileage may vary. I'm certainly looking forward to Gwen in the next series.

[violaswamp]

But she only gained that institutional role through qualities such as her listening to the people and speaking truth to power

And constantly nurturing and supporting Arthur, and being willing to forgive Uther (and fall in love with the son of her father's murderer). Even her "speaking truth to power," while valuable, is all in the service of Arthur's destiny to be a great King and his own ideals. She gets her outside power by being non-threatening to Arthur, by having no interests that truly clash with his.

I just get queasy when I see the sole female character of color who is not only powerless, but never even seems to want anything at odds with the white males.

I'm totally looking forward to seeing more of her, too. I don't mean to say that you're DOING IT RONG by liking Gwen or anything. :P I like her too, that's actually why the set-up bothers me.