I like my TSCC scrambled, with a side of crazy

[roxybisquaint]

Theory, glorious theory!John Henry's "brother" tried to kill him and also wants Savannah dead. Those are two good reasons for John Henry to want to stop him. So why jump to the future to destroy the AI that's after him and Savannah in the present? Well, I don't think he did. I think John Henry is still in 2009 and after finding out Kaliba's

Comments

[bobmacpharson]

Um, not to rain on your parade, but Dekker's quote, which you listed on this site a few months ago was that:

"• John will find John Henry with Cameron in his chip and through some complicated process, Cameron is remade."

[castellan_craft]

While I'm also not on board with all of Roxy's theories, it is worth noting that a chip doesn't need to go into the future through a bubble to get found: it can go "the long way." She was still functional in BtR if not at her peak, so "remade" could refer to a restoration.

[bobmacpharson]

That actually makes a deal of sense. But I DO think Cameron deliberately sent John to the future to teach him a particular lesson (she clearly has an agenda beyond merely protecting him) , and I'm not sure she would have trusted herself to survive long enough to teach him said lesson 10 years in the future.

[roxybisquaint]

"... though some complicated process" is pretty vague anyway and I just don't see it happening unless the complicated process is Sarah having a moment of mental torture trying to decide whether or not to reboot her :P

The idea of Cameron being remade is too convoluted. If Cameron's chip is in JH's head, then her body is toast in present day. There's just no way Sarah's going to tuck that way for safe keeping. So that means she'd needs a new body. The only way to get a Cameron-looking body is for Allison's fate to play out the same way as it did in the other future (and for John to somehow nab her and yank her chip after he's got Cam's original chip). I think that would be a really lame story.

What could be an interesting story (going with the idea that Cam chip is in JH's head in the future) is John having to actually destroy the new Cameron body in order to save Kyle or something. But I'm still not keen at all on Cam chip being in the future via time jump.

[bobmacpharson]

(and for the record, I'm perfectly willing to accept "John Henry somehow made it work" to be a legitimate solution. Especially consider that he was in the process of figuring out how to hack the data on the burnt chip from water cooler guy. He'd already have the interface to try and load/download data from it, so she could have been copied there.)

In fact, assuming the original quote was literally accurate as opposed to approximately transcribed from Dekker's rantings, it's not Cameron's chip, it's Cameron IN John Henry's chip.

[bobmacpharson]

Although I just realized that they had just made a pointed effort to explain that Terminator personalities are contingent on software AND hardware, so putting Cameron in a burnt chip would be really significant (also a major part of her personality is that her chip is damaged in a particular way). Dunno how they'd play that out.

Finally, I am almost positive that Weaver knew exactly what was happening, whatever it was, and was just saying what needed to be said to get John into the future as part of the plan. And if she WAS telling the truth we could interpret "he" (John Henry) to mean the body specifically.

[roxybisquaint]

They made a pointed effort to explain that John Henry's personality was contingent on his particular setup, but that doesn't mean all cyborgs are that way. I didn't notice Cameron changing after John used some spare parts to fix her hand. Also, I'd think yanking her chip and setting her loose in the traffic system for a while might've had some impact as well if that were the case. But the only time Cameron changed was after her chip was physically damaged in the explosion.

[castellan_craft]

If it's both a hardware and software matter as I say, putting Cameron in a new body entirely would also be a significant change

[intrepid01]

Phew! It might have been easer to write a fanfic!

One thing I found slightly, annoying? Was if the time-machine was activated before by John Henry, wouldn't there be evidence of this.
If what doesn't go through gets atomised, then there should have been a nice little crater where John Henry's table and chair was.

[roxybisquaint]

Hee. Maybe I will write a post-BTR continuation fanfic at some point. For now, I'm still trying to figure it all out ;)

Yeah that annoyed me too and I got into some discussions about it with people when I posted about Born to Run (if you're interested, it's the "Ring of Fire" section and also discussion in the comments). I think there should've been some sort of depression, damage to the room - something, especially considering the entire bank got destroyed after they jumped in the pilot. But the counter argument that the bank vault didn't blow up because of the time bubble, it blew because it was rigged with explosives. Since we've never actually seen a time bubble leave, I think that argument is plausible, even if harder to believe.

Unfoldings

[tackdriver56]

Vic's chip was never seen again after the house burned in What He Beheld, or Samson and Delihlah

Re: Unfoldings

[roxybisquaint]

I'm pretty sure we were led to believe that Cameron was stashing all of the parts she salvaged from her 'kills', in the box in the garage. Sarah burned them.

I think we were probably meant to believe that they destroyed the chip after they'd gotten all the Barbara Chamberlain / ARTE stuff from it and were done with that mission. But since we never actually saw that happen and it was never mentioned, that chip could still be in play. It's not much more ludicrous than Cameron being in John Henry's head on a chip that doesn't fit his port ;)

I *like* the idea of Cameron and John Henry sharing a processor. There's a LOT of exposition AND drama to be mined from that circumstance.

The only thing that appeals to me about that is possibility of seeing John interact with her/him. But after one funny scene, I think I'd be quite done with that.

I have to differ with the concept of John Henry and / or Sarah making things right in present day: John clearly arrived in a world where Judgement Day had already unfolded. The future of humanity

Re: Unfoldings

[tackdriver56]

Sorry, I should have spelled out that I was responding to your imaginative speculation that John Henry stayed in 2009, instead of abbreviating to JH

Re: Unfoldings, Repair Cromartie or Cameron

[tackdriver56]

Oops... forgot this part.
I'm sure it was a messy business repairing the metal damage to Cromarties endo before re-growing the flesh and surgically enhancing it. Weaver knew how to do it. Cameron was probably capable of it too, if her chip is recovered.
Cromartie needed professional help, though, to make himself presentable. Cameron might be gone, for this cycle.

[indiefic]

I'm with you on Sarah's motivations for letting John jump, for John wanting to Jump and for Cameron manipulating the hell out of everybody and not jumping.

As for John Henry. God, trying to figure out his motivations makes my head hurt. I go back and forth on whether or not the writers and Josh were brilliant and ten steps ahead or if they didn't know what the fuck John Henry's motivations were either and they totally pulled everything out of their collective ass. I really suspect it's the latter.

On a side note, I LOVE how much you love this show. It makes me all warm and fuzzy to know I'm not the only person who thinks about this stuff all the damn time.

[cj2017]

I go back and forth on whether or not the writers and Josh were brilliant and ten steps ahead or if they didn't know what the fuck John Henry's motivations were either and they totally pulled everything out of their collective ass. I really suspect it's the latter.

I think JH was a work in progress - like so many of the open ends left by the show - and they were probably figuring him out as they went along. The threads for his development were being sewn - his reaction to being switched off (the implication that perhaps this was the point the Turk became "angry and scared"), his discovery of/interest in his brother, the ability to do his own research and finally the suggestion that he acted in league with Cameron to put into play some scheme of his own...

Maybe each season was planned as a significant stage in his development and S3 would've been moody, obnoxious and wilful teen, kicking out against his ersatz mother and generally being rebellious... Think S2 John only with superior body strength ;-)

On a side note, I LOVE how

[indiefic]

I never considered that he was pretending to be close to her just so she'd be better at manipulating his younger self.

Personally, I don't want an intervention ;) But a support group sounds groovy. Can we come up with a SCC drinking game?

[cj2017]

A drinking game would be fabulous. I'm amazed there isn't one already (actually, there probably is one) Can you imagine how wrecked you'd be if you included:

Sarah trashes a car.
John acts like a dick.
Sarah gets throttled.
Someone unnecessarily quotes the movies.
Derek acts like a dick.
Ellison acts like a dick.
Sarah trashes a pancake.
Cameron wears something inappropriate and sits uncomfortably close to John.
Someone Sarah has slept with/spoken to/interacted with/brushed past on the street dies.
Sarah's scars jump location/disappear/conveniently reappear...