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space_poodle April 11 2018, 15:48:29 UTC
The porn industry is damaging to women and inherently upholds the patriarchy. No porn performer deserves to be in danger or have his/ her stipulations ignored, but I just cannot see how we are trying to pass off this business as anything remotely feminist when it's not only rampant with exploiting people who are struggling somehow (for every "I am a college-educated woman from an amazing family who does porn just because I genuinely love it" there are 10,000 women who were coerced by money, the idea of acceptance, fame or a sense of family that doesn't really exist).

Women CAN choose to perform in porn for any reason they want, but should we be encouraging this as any other choice of her autonomy, as if it were choosing between which school to go to or which hairstyle to wear?

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vespertinev April 11 2018, 17:58:46 UTC
we live in a culture that fetishizes violence. It doesn't surprise me.

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msgrottesca April 11 2018, 18:13:14 UTC
This is why I'm a firm believer in "kinkshaming" lmao. Look, if you like feet, or spitting, or whatever you're into that doesn't involve hurting another person, we're good, we're fine. But if your kink is pretending to rape other people, if your kink is seeing other people in pain... I don't really want to have sex with you and I, as a general rule, avoid men who get off on seeing women in pain.

The whole time I was watching Mindhunter, they kept talking about "This guy likes to tie up women and beat them." or "This guy likes to see women in pain." and these things were considered an indication that the man in question should be a murder suspect. All I could think is "Nowadays, this stuff is considered totally normal and actually encouraged." LOL. Sorry I can not trust a man whose dick gets hard at the thought of beating the shit out of me or wrapping his hands around my neck to cut off my air supply.

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andres01234 April 11 2018, 18:36:57 UTC
perfect comment and I totally agree

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space_poodle April 11 2018, 19:43:19 UTC
I had a sad realization recently about the dude I was seeing for a minute. He def saw himself as an "alpha male" but would share progressive, liberal, pro-equality/ feminist views and was honest about how he wasn't raised woke but had to work hard at becoming that way to align his beliefs with his actions. He dated career women he respected, and when we started dating, he treated me with respect, agreed that men are garbage, and I liked that a prerequisite he had for a girlfriend was she had to be a feminist and a strong woman ( ... )

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msgrottesca April 11 2018, 23:07:54 UTC
You're on the money tbh. It's actually so common there are two porn categories dedicated to putting feminist/educated women "in their place". One is called "bimboification" porn which is mostly in the form of drawings and the other is I think called "feminization" porn or something (don't quote me on that, because I genuinely don't remember) which appears both in life action and written formats. The latter, from what I've seen, is more violent and disturbing because rather than revolving around transforming a feminist/educated woman into a bimbo, it's more about PUNISHING them for being a feminist/educated. "Feminist Forcing" is also a sub-genre and I'm sure you can imagine what that one is about...

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msgrottesca April 11 2018, 15:54:41 UTC
As long as we say women's bodies can be bought, we are saying women are objects. People don't like hearing that, because it stings, and it gives them less access, and it makes them feel guilty, but it's true. Dressing up the patriarchy in new clothes doesn't make it feminist.

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space_poodle April 11 2018, 16:19:42 UTC
While it is a choice women can make, it is a fact that women who exchange sex for money are inherently being coerced by money, or else they would not be having sex with the client. Coercion cannot be applied to contexts of non-sexual careers however, because while I would not be flying out to Florida to attend a business meeting this week unless it was because my salary requires I do my work, this is not conflicting with my autonomy or objectively speaking to my decision to let someone else use my physical being as an object because they are offering me money or goods for it ( ... )

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space_poodle April 11 2018, 16:40:27 UTC
You make very good points bb, thank you for a well thought-out reply that helps me see things a little differently :)

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msgrottesca April 11 2018, 16:47:28 UTC
most importantly being pressured or having to say, scrub floors, to survive is different from having to do sex work to survive because sex that is not freely chosen is rape and heinous, coerced idk, photocopying is not.omg this is one of my biggest pet peeves when I get into discourse with extremely pro-sex work feminists, when they pull the "well how is that any different from working at McDonald's?" line and think they've like, blown my fucking mind lmaooo. for one, I have a fairly Marxist view on the entire concept of work as we know it so that appeal doesn't work on me. for two, no, they're not the same, at all, in any way ( ... )

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msgrottesca April 11 2018, 16:22:43 UTC
Totally agree. People act like you're insane when you say it, but it's the truth. If your choices are "suck a dick" and "starve", then you do not actually have a choice, because no one wants to starve, or lose their apartment, or let their kids go hungry, or let the lights get turned off, etc.

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cricket April 11 2018, 16:50:30 UTC
yep

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vespertinev April 11 2018, 18:00:33 UTC
truth

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labovm April 11 2018, 16:25:24 UTC
ia

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