We Love the Women That Fandom Hates- Day 1

[fauxkaren]

It is past midnight and thus officially September 9th which means it is the first day of the We Love the Women That Fandom Hates project. For those of you who have only watched Game of Thrones and not read A Song of Ice and Fire, the Catelyn meta today does not refer to events that happen after the first book. However, it does refer to events that

Comments

[misstopia]

I have comments about the Catelyn & Jon topic! Okay so.

I agree that Cat's resentment of Jon was definitely an unconscious decision. I think she just couldn't help it. But I also think that she tried her best to control it, because part of her knew it was wrong and she wasn't proud of it. She feels a flash of guilt thinking about Jon in the mountains of the Vale, for example, and she dwells a lot more on the pragmatic threats that Jon poses than on her own hurt feelings (though she can certainly admit those to herself). What I think is really telling is how none of her children dwell on it much. Probably Arya and Bran and Rickon are too young to notice, Sansa I'm not sure. Robb is old enough to get it and he definitely knows she has a problem with him. BUT nevertheless when Jon tells him that his mother treated him kindly at Bran's bedside, at the very least it's believable to Robb. At the very least her children probably cannot predict "It should have been you" coming out of her mouth, and while that doesn't make her a

[fauxkaren]

But she just can't move on as well as she would like to (I think she did try to love Jon though, once).
I want to read fic about this!

In ADWD we have that moment where Bran sees his father praying to the old gods that his lady wife could find it in her heart to forgive ... and then it cuts off, but very likely he wants her to forgive him.
I totally forgot about that bit, tbh. Large parts of ADWD went in one ear and out the other, as it were. haha.

I slightly disagree on one point: I don't think modern society would expect Catelyn to love or mother Jon either. I was thinking more in terms of blended families just because Cat and Ned were total strangers when they married. Because modern Western society doesn't have arranged marriages where strangers marry and then are separated for a year, it's impossible to draw a direct analogy. So in my mind, I was seeing it as more like Ned bringing in a child from a previous relationship

[misstopia]

I would love to read some actually thoughtful Cat & Jon fic ... I'm just afraid to ask for it XD

So in my mind, I was seeing it as more like Ned bringing in a child from a previous relationship.

Right, it's just that I think that in Westeros there would be a difference if, for example, Ned had been married before and had a son with his first wife, so Catelyn would in that case have known about Jon going in to the arrangement. You're right though, no direct analogy.

I really want to participate in the fest too, for Cat and a few other women ... I'm just debating whether or not I have the time D:

[fauxkaren]

Another reason I think that Cat gets flack for not being motherly to Jon (while people tend to not care that Robert is a shit father to his kids) is that there seems to be more pressure on women to be motherly than for men to be fatherly.

And you should participate in the fest! lol. I probably should not have the time for this, but I am totally making time. Probably not the wisest life decision, but it's fun!

[kem_viva]

Every time I read your Cat posts I have to ask myself why I don't like her enough to consider her as a character I like a lot. Maybe by the end of the week I will be able to put her in that group.

[fauxkaren]

Tbh, it's all part of my diabolical scheme to make everyone in the world love Cat. And then somehow I'll take over the world. I haven't worked out the details just yet though.

[geekyphoenix]

I loved watching Cordelia grow through the years and is the perfect example of character growth.

[fauxkaren]

She really does have amazing character growth and it is SO believable. It's not sudden, but rather it comes from a combination of things: losing her money, getting the visions, and the natural process of growing up that happens after high school.

[cyshobbitlass]

Nothing to really add except that I always thought it was cute that Cordelia had the same flaw as her namesake. Shakespeare's Cordelia also gets in trouble for being too honest. ;)

[fauxkaren]

Lear is one of my favorite Shakespeare plays, and you are so right. Both Cordelias speak their mind and refuse to bullshit when it counts.

[sazeracs]

I like all of these women. clearly I fail at fandom.

[fauxkaren]

You fail at fandom in the best way possible. :D

I love all these ladies so much that when I see the kind of stuff said about them, I just get so annoyed. These women are amazing, and the haters just need to deal with it.

[sazeracs]

word. I've only watched GOT, so I stay out of fandom for reasons of spoilers / laziness / not wanting to deal with the show vs book divide, but I'll be damned if I'll stand for people shitting all over some of the only interesting developed ladies on TV/Film. We can't really afford to do that. *fistpump* As long as the beschel test is a sad failure more often than not, I'd rather avoid the infighting.

[fauxkaren]

It's interesting that you bring up the Bechdel Test because the meta that I'm working on right now is all about Catelyn's relationship with another female character. A Song of Ice and Fire is full of fairly complex and interesting female characters, but they so rarely interact with each other. One of the few female friendships in the series is actually between Catelyn and another women, and I love their relationship.

But obviously my meta is going to be full of spoilers, so you won't want to read it if you're avoiding spoilers from the books. haha. Actually, I hope you don't consider what I said to be a spoiler. I think I kept it vague enough that it doesn't actually spoil anything.