Things which concern me today

[cupidsbow]

My concerns about eating

It genuinely gives me a sense of creeping horror that so many people are still so invested in denial of climate change.

I see numbers like this, going ever upward for most of my adult life. I see reports of the effects of these increases in reputable journals, not only in terms of abrupt and disastrous localised weather

Comments

[dfordoom]

It genuinely gives me a sense of creeping horror that so many people are still so invested in denial of climate change.

I'm afraid you'd have to put me in the skeptic's camp. I believe that climate change occurs regularly for perfectly natural reasons.

[cupidsbow]

So do I. That's totally not the issue.

[dfordoom]

So do I. That's totally not the issue.

It is the issue for me. If climate change is natural then there's no way we can stop it, and there's no reason why we'd want to. It's a sign that the planet is healthy.

Adapting to periodic natural climate change would only cost a fraction of the money currently being spent on attempts to stop a purely natural cycle.

[drhoz]

except the current change is not natural. We're in what under natural conditions would be an interglacial period at the moment.

The effect that CO2 content has on the thermal insulation of the Earth's atmosphere was demonstrated over 100 years ago. How could raising the CO2 levels of the atmosphere by burning fossil carbon, liberating methane, and removing vegetation on a massive scale, NOT have an effect?

[cupidsbow]

This issue is not a binary one -- it's possible for there to be natural variation and anthropogenic climate change

[dfordoom]

I realise my assertion isn't going to convince you, and it shouldn't, as
I'm not an expert. But neither are most climate change skeptics. Most
actual climate science experts are convinced of anthropogenic climate
change. Sure, all of them could be wrong, but it's just not likely.
Occam's razor.

The problem is that the people pushing the idea of anthropogenic climate change have a political axe to grind. Those who push the idea tend to be people who want governments and international organisations like the UN to have more power. For them climate change was a godsend. It was the issue they desperately needed and it came along when they were at their most desperate. My concern is that those people want to believe. They need to believe

[cupidsbow]

Oh, yes, I agree. Science is big business.

Tell me about the politics of the skeptics now. You've only given half the story.

[dfordoom]

Tell me about the politics of the skeptics now. You've only given half the story.I've never met a left-wing person who didn't believe passionately in anthropogenic climate change. I've never met a true conservative who did believe in it. That to me indicates that we're dealing with a political belief, nor a scientific one

[cupidsbow]

anthropogenic climate change believers

[dfordoom]

Do you notice how not a single aspect of your reasoning actually engages
with the science of climate change? It's all politicsYes, it is all politics. People decide whether to believe or not based on their political stance. The science doesn't come into it

[cupidsbow]

I can't discuss this with you any more. The illogic of your core premises make any further discussion a waste of my time and yours.

[drhoz]

During the previous government, the CSIRO,, the government-funded science and research organisation here in Australia, was repeatedly warning the government (then conservative, despite the fact it was called the Liberal Party) about anthrogenic climate change. This was very unpopular with the government, who were toeing the line from Washington.

That's despite the fact that the CSIRO paychecks came from the government.