Things which concern me today

[cupidsbow]

My concerns about eating

It genuinely gives me a sense of creeping horror that so many people are still so invested in denial of climate change.

I see numbers like this, going ever upward for most of my adult life. I see reports of the effects of these increases in reputable journals, not only in terms of abrupt and disastrous localised weather

Comments

[cupidsbow]

anthropogenic climate change believers:
- always left-wing, based on political axe to grind
- want governments and international organisations like the UN to have more power
- based on want and need for power
- scientist want government funding
- scientists' reputations are more important than evidence
- green energy is... ?; the oil industry is... ?
- green energy is about... ?
- green energy... [presumably does make energy]
- money should be spent on green energy because... ?
- the west's current use of non-green energy is... [presumably causing climate change]

climate change skeptics
- always conservative, based on political belief
- want governments and international organisations like the UN to have no more power, or less power
- based on a belief that there's a general lack of honesty in institutions
- skeptics want... ?
- skeptics reputations... ?
- green energy is sinister; the oil industry is much less sinister
- green energy is about making money for companies, and collecting money from taxpayers
- green energy doesn't make energy
- money spent on green energy should be spent on more useful things
- the west is energy poor due to green energy and poor people are dying

Do you notice how not a single aspect of your reasoning actually engages with the science of climate change? It's all politics.

Politics is a reality, you're right about that. It absolutely does exist in the academy, and it does influence what is researched. But you know what? That doesn't make the findings of scientists wrong or incorrect.

Until you address the actual science, your argument is only half an argument. Among experts, the consensus on the science is: climate change is happening at a rate that cannot be explained by natural causes.

You cannot really be arguing that the majority of scientists are partial and wrong, but the majority of skeptics are unbiased and right. That is obviously just absurd on the face of it. You might as well argue that all left-wing people are liars and wrong, and all right-wing people are truth-tellers and right.

[dfordoom]

Do you notice how not a single aspect of your reasoning actually engages
with the science of climate change? It's all politics

Yes, it is all politics. People decide whether to believe or not based on their political stance. The science doesn't come into it.

So little is really known about climate science. There are very few things on earth as complex as climate, or as little understood. There's lots of data, but no-one can be sure what it means. Data that indicates that climate change is or is not occurring does not tell us why that is happening. The reasons are pure speculation. Many people confuse data with evidence. Anyone who says the science is settled doesn't understand science. In the late 19th century the science was settled on Newtonian physics. Every scientist agreed that Newtonian physics was correct. But they were wrong. Science is never settled. Theories come and go. Data is reinterpreted.

Climate science is at a very primitive stage of development. Scientists can do whizz-bang computer modelling, but they have no idea if the assumptions on which they base those models are correct or not.

Scientists tend to agree with their peer group, as does everyone else. If a particular interpretation of data is popular they'll go along with it. If they don't they may lose their funding, or even their jobs. There's massive pressure to conform. Scientists are only human. They're no braver than the average person - in other words they're not very brave at all. Conforming is the safe option.

[cupidsbow]

I can't discuss this with you any more. The illogic of your core premises make any further discussion a waste of my time and yours.

[drhoz]

During the previous government, the CSIRO,, the government-funded science and research organisation here in Australia, was repeatedly warning the government (then conservative, despite the fact it was called the Liberal Party) about anthrogenic climate change. This was very unpopular with the government, who were toeing the line from Washington.

That's despite the fact that the CSIRO paychecks came from the government.