6/Privilege: A chisplanation

[chibidl]

So, I was derping around online doing valid and necessary research on the LJRP community for anthropology class (yep, yep, totally) when I ran across metafandom and of course got sucked in. I was mostly there to look at the topics and find out exactly how one submits articles to be linked, as I'm interested in posting my ethnography (when it is finished) to

Comments

[esotaria]

...I just nerdgasmed.

Although I have to say -- I'm glad there are real feminists around to tell them no for meI can't quite agree with that, or the reinforcing-sense-of-privilege-by-explaining. It would be nice if people would just spontaneously recognize their privilege and work to correct the various -isms (be it racism, sexism, classism, ableism, etc.), but it will never happen, not on an effective scale. It's not fair that minority groups have to explain to people in power why something is wrong and why things need to be changed, and I respect those people who go: "I don't want to be your educator. Sorry

[chibidl]

It would be nice if people would just spontaneously recognize their privilege and work to correct the various -isms (be it racism, sexism, classism, ableism, etc.), but it will never happen, not on an effective scale.They can't. It's not possible. I mean, once you've learned to recognize one privilege set I think it's easier to recognize others, so if you for example are white but trans and know all about cisgendered privilege it might be easier for you to spontaneously become aware of your privilege in racial situations. But that only works if you're already deeply 'in the know' about how this stuff relates to an issue you're passionate about. The people who face the greatest challenges when it comes to realizing their privilege are those who most need to do so. Our culture places their interests above those of everyone else, and because they are participants who were born and raised in that culture and were never awakened to how it was oppressing them (because it wasn't), they have never thought to question it. They cannot possibly

[esotaria]

It is not the job of the oppressed to educate the privileged. It is, however, the job of the offended to speak out against whatever is bothering them. What everyone should do is find the areas where they are privileged and become hypersensitive to their own and others' use of that privilege. Sexism might bother me because I'm a girl, but since I'm white I should focus instead on race issues so that I can educate other white people about our privilege. The men among those people I talk to will then have an easier time adjusting to the idea of male privilege, once they find out about it through other means, because they will already know about white privilege and the ideas - though not the specific privileges - are similar. Perhaps some of them might even spontaneously become aware of their male privilege because they can see the patterns of symbolism.That is an excellent point, and I certainly did not want to imply that I think the poor are obligated to teach the rich, or women to teach the men, etc. I like the way you said "the job of

[chibidl]

And in terms of effectiveness, I think your longer, more sympathetic but still firm response is much more effective than a simple slap in the face.

My answer is more complicated, though, and sometimes a complicated answer does more harm than good. These men are in a sense saying, "Wait, so if I do this it's sexist but if she does the exact same thing then it's not? Isn't that... sexist?" The most effective answer is not, "Well, it's not the action that is sexist but the beliefs and values behind it..." because most men do not believe that they hold sexist beliefs or values. You are set up to fail because everyone believes either that they are an exception to the rule or that society as a whole isn't as bad as you're painting it.

So, no, the most effective answer that I can think of really is to slap them in the face with, "No, and shut up." When they have been burned enough times to finally get it through their heads that maybe you're not the one with the problem, then they will be ready for the longer explanation.

But by seeing

[esotaria]

When they have been burned enough times to finally get it through their heads that maybe you're not the one with the problem, then they will be ready for the longer explanation.Either that or they'll simply stop trying to have a dialogue at all. When someone approaches you with an earnest response and you simply slap them in the face, that doesn't encourage them to continue the dialogue and maybe learn something

[esotaria]

I feel like I should add that a gentler explanation also doesn't have to be a LONG explanation. Like, I loved your explanation in your journal entry, but part of the reason it worked is that you weren't talking to a specific person -- you were simply pontificating.

RL not sexism example. Remember the whole hoopla with LJ and the transphobic question of the day thing?

Friend: I don't understand why everyone thinks that question is transphobic.
Me: A) Because it made it seem like being trans is the equivalent of being a criminal and B) it implies that transgender people are obligated to tell their partners they're trans.

Friend: Okay, I see that connection and it's just silly. As for B, while I wouldn't say people are obligated to tell their partners they're trans, if you're that close with someone, I think you really should

[chibidl]

Yeah, I get what you mean. Unfortunately, there's a pretty big difference between that kind of conversation and what most people are saying, as I said in my other comment

[esotaria]

Haha, no worries. I'm kind of weird in that I only get offended when people stop reading my LJ if they make a big announcement about it. "HI KATIE. I'M GOING TO STOP READING YOUR LJ BECAUSE I DON'T UNDERSTAND WTF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT ANYMORE." But I don't mind if you just slink off. And you do what you have to do to take care of yourself.

At the moment, I'm not much babbling about my ~issues~ -- it's kind of work/fannish focused at this point. But I'm sure something soon will set me off again.

I'm glad you're having this conversation. ♥ You've given me a lot to think about (when I'm more awake).

[chibidl]

OH WAIT I HAD A POINT BUT I THINK I FORGOT IT.

It might have been that my experiences tell me that smacking people around is the normal way to handle ignorance when it comes to these things.

Or it might've been that it worked for me.

Or. It might have been that "YEAH, BEING SMACKED AROUND REALLY SUCKS LET'S TRY NOT TO DO IT TO OTHER PEOPLE."

Seriously, I forget. WTF.

[esotaria]

LOL ♥

[chibidl]

The problem with most of these discussions, though, is that there isn't a dividing line between troll and open-minded ignorance. It's a continuum, and most people fall somewhere in the middle. The guys I'm specifically thinking of weren't asking questions but describing their experiences with the implication that these anecdotes somehow proved everyone else wrong. I'm not saying it's right to yell at and flame them, but they need to be told that they're wrong and that, additionally, the implication that their experiences are comparable to those of the women speaking is in itself offensive.

If they do ask these questions, yes, people should answer them. Or if they phrase it in the form of a statement, like, "I don't get why..." But not if they're coming at the discussion with the presumption that they already understand and that their personal experiences trump those of the group at large. That is a position of privilege and their minds are already closed to anything that will not reinforce that privilege.

[esotaria]

True point is true. I went to college with asshats like that. (Classic question: "What did women ever contribute to history?")

[esotaria]

People read far too much into perfectly innocent circumstances. And I see no need to invent new slang that is not only flawed in application, but to it's core.

A male can't help being male anymore than a female being female.

Is it "mansplaining" just because they happen to be male? It's just another form of discrimination. In reality a man can be just as knowledgeable or informative on a variety of issues without being in fact female.

It just sounds like.. "if you're looking for discrimination you will find it, whether it truly exists or not". Learn to be patient with others, to understand each other, and perhaps you'll learn the root of te misunderstanding rather than grandstanding as if you are the only one capable of intelligent thought.

[chibidl]

My word. Did you actually read the post, or did you see a bunch of girls being all empowered and feminist and feel the need to set them straight? Because, well - obviously that is your privilege, being male. (I assume you're male

[ambiance_huston]

Not surprisingly you jumped to the conclusion I suspected you would

[chibidl]

I might note that you are making a lot of assumptions about me, as well. None of them are as obvious as assuming the wrong gender, but they're still there