Master's degrees in France

[horizon_eyes]

I'm looking into Master's degree programs at French universities and have come across some worrisome statements concerning the value of such a degree outside of France. My questions are under the cut.

Comments

[tyopsqueene]

While I agree on the non-comparability of masters courses (they're to fulfil different purposes on either side of the atlantic) I really have to ask for evidence on this:
Few European universities measure up to American ones, but French universities are low even by European standards.
1. It's simply not true that EU unis are entirely inferior to all American ones (Ecole Normale Superieure, vs. Phoenix?! ha!)
2. It's simply not true that French unis are 'low' by EU standards; several French unis rank pretty high in European listings (although admittedly below the UK, in general)
http://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/world-university-rankings/2009/regional-rankings/europe
3. And it's not true that EU PhDs are 2-3 years; 3 is generaly the absolute minimum, and the normal pattern is to take 4 years.

[emmabovary]

Yes, I was thinking of ENS too. Extremely prestigious even in the USA.

[sverensis]

I wonder how the French have managed to occupy leading positions in history, literary studies, philosophy and sociology for half a century considering that their higher education is so much inferior to all or most North American universities. They must have smuggled a Foucault and a Bourdieu together with the Annales school from somewhere in South Dakota.

Admittedly, the selling potential of an overseas university degree in the United States may not correlate to the quality of education.

[uberconfused]

The last point about "selling potential" is the real issue. Regardless of quality--real or perceived--American academia (and perhaps prospective employers too? I don't really know) are notoriously snooty about accepting/valuing European credentials. I've been the student rep to my department's hiring committee and people coming from European institutions were often dismissed out of hand, regardless of quite strong publication records. They seemed like perfectly qualified candidates in terms of education and productivity, but their credentials were nowhere near as marketable.

[gobsmacked]

Not just Europe, sometimes out of state degrees are regarded with suspicion in the U.S. So apparently, an ego the size of Saturn and a solid case of delusion, ethnocentrism and a good helping of stupidity (to quote the_reda) run rampant in American academia, or at least the HR departments.

[uberconfused]

HR departments are rarely in charge of hiring within American academia--or were you referring to corporate hiring?

Anyway, this phenomenon is not exclusive to the US, by the way. Try getting hired into German academia with a degree from a Polish university. Or, for that matter, getting hired at the Freie Universitaat in Berlin with a degree from Mannheim. The EU loves to think that it has great labor mobility, but it's often little more than marketing hype when it comes right down to it.

[tyopsqueene]

Now, to be helpful to the OP. Graduate study in North America is structured along quite different lines (and for different outcomes...) than that in most of the EU. It is the case, therefore, that if you do MA study in the EU, it might not 'do the work' of a US MA, and might not be as good for you CV/career as a US qualification (er, assuming you want to stay in the US

[tisiphone]

That really ain't cheap - it'd cost you a couple hundred quid per trip.

[tyopsqueene]

Mmm, a minimum of about £70 if you prebook and travel at the off peak times (e.g. 6am :D), but I think a hundred, hundred fifty is closer to the mark.
Dollar's good against EU currencies at the moment though, and there's a loyalty scheme!

(yeah, I wouldn't).

[tisiphone]

Hmm, yeah, I was going by my pricing due to never pre-booking (pre-plan? What is this!) Still run you a couple hundred quid a week, however.

[gobsmacked]

You don't say what your specialty is, except "humanities". Or where in France your TAship will be. It is difficult to give you advice without a bit more information.

[horizon_eyes]

I did my undergrad work in English but am not sure yet which specialty I'll pursue in my MA. I will be in Nantes, but like I said would prefer not to live in Paris.

[gobsmacked]

There are some very prestigious universities in the humanities in France. However, you should first investigate those close to Nantes or Nantes itself. As others have pointed out, you will almost certainly have to be on campus at some point, and take classes.

[lareinenoire]

I have to agree with everyone who says it is very much based on exactly what topic and subject you're looking to study. There are some extremely good universities in France and I know a number of people from my PhD program in the UK that had done some previous graduate work in France. That being said, I don't know how the programs work there specifically so you'll want to read up on that.

I did all my graduate work in the UK, though, so I do know how the programs there work -- the master's degree tends to be a one-year program and extremely intensive. In Cambridge, it was two terms of coursework and one term to write your master's thesis. But what is more important at this stage is who you're working with.

Honestly, my suggestion to you if you want to work in the USwould be to use your time in France to really become fluent in the language and maybe take some classes here and there, and use that to market yourself to a program in the US or in the UK. If you had a degree from one of the top French universities and references from a

[horizon_eyes]

Honestly, my suggestion to you if you want to work in the US would be to use your time in France to really become fluent in the language and maybe take some classes here and there, and use that to market yourself to a program in the US or in the UK.

That sounds like a very good plan to me. Thank you. : )

[lareinenoire]

Also, the fact that you'll already have teaching experience from this program might stand you in very good stead for fellowships later on, which should cut down considerably on your costs for grad school.

That being said, Nantes itself is quite good for certain subjects. Definitely research the university there and see if they've got a program that interests you. If not, you've lost nothing by doing it.