Master's degrees in France

[horizon_eyes]

I'm looking into Master's degree programs at French universities and have come across some worrisome statements concerning the value of such a degree outside of France. My questions are under the cut.

Comments

[tyopsqueene]

While I agree on the non-comparability of masters courses (they're to fulfil different purposes on either side of the atlantic) I really have to ask for evidence on this:
Few European universities measure up to American ones, but French universities are low even by European standards.
1. It's simply not true that EU unis are entirely inferior to all American ones (Ecole Normale Superieure, vs. Phoenix?! ha!)
2. It's simply not true that French unis are 'low' by EU standards; several French unis rank pretty high in European listings (although admittedly below the UK, in general)
http://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/world-university-rankings/2009/regional-rankings/europe
3. And it's not true that EU PhDs are 2-3 years; 3 is generaly the absolute minimum, and the normal pattern is to take 4 years.

[emmabovary]

Yes, I was thinking of ENS too. Extremely prestigious even in the USA.

[aryanhwy]

In the Netherlands, at least, the length of Ph.D. appointment depends a lot on the faculty. My institute is split between faculty of science and faculty of humanities; in the former the contracts are for 4 years (with most people finishing in about 4.5), in the latter they are for 3 (with fewer people finishing in that amount of time). One reason that the programmes here are shorter than in the U.S. is because (a) the research project is generally well-defined in advance, so the student needn't spend a lot of time coming up with a topic and (b) a master's degree or equivalent is required for admittance, which means that you've already essentially done your coursework before arrival, and thus you're ready for doing research.

[tyopsqueene]

That may have been what you meant, but it isn't what you actually saidThe whole point here is that 'reverting to the mean' is a useless way of giving advice. Generalising out from your limited experience is unlikely to provide a useful answer to this sort of question, precisely because these comparisons are so subject and site specific; even saying that US degrees carry more weight internationally than French ones is a gross simplification (My institution, for example, has a big, rather complex, regularly rejigged booklet on how to convert overseas degrees into UK equivalents, and I can tell you that there's no 'mean' difference between the way a French degree is automatically treated compared to a US degree

[tyopsqueene]

*snork* no need to be snarky because someone's called you on your factual errors.

If you care, ring the department and ask them for their average completion time. It'll be over three years, I absolutely guarantee it.

Programmes are set up for 3 years, that's the funding span. However the great majority of all students in all disciplines continue to write-up after that period. Hell, even the meanest funding bodies don't start penalising until the 4 year period is up; you don't drop off the register for a decade in most places!

[sensaes]

"...you don't drop off the register for a decade in most places!"

And then there's Brian May, bless 'im.

[tyopsqueene]

Like an antimatter Brian Cox.

(I recently examined a PhD which was started, full time, in 2000. I had to stand in the anteroom (antiroom...) and say "this took a decade?!" to myself until I'd got it out of my system).

[sensaes]

Interruptions to the doctoral funding stream (VDDs - virtually dammed dykes - as a colleague once cheekily described 'em) aren't too uncommon, and becoming less so every year, although those rumours about May busking for small change outside pubs and Tube stations were probably unfounded. (In a layer of irony too obscure for this thread, if not the whole post, some of us actually moved to France to get away from academia for a while.)

[licon]

The Edinburgh people I know with finished their PhDs within the allotted time, and this was not uncommon. It's far less common for people to stretch it out.

[bunnyhug]

Oh. According to your profile you have no experience with European universities. This explains a lot.

[bunnyhug]

You can get as self-righteous as you want because clearly you've talked to people and therefore know oh so very much about systems for which you exhibit very little familiarity. Let me guess: you're a first or second year PhD student?

[the_reda]

"Few European universities measure up to American ones, but French universities are low even by European standards. "

You are trolling, right?

Your knowledge of how European Unis work is astounding. I am really impressed at you sub-wiki understanding of European degrees and academia.