racism and antisemitism

[vaznetti]

I was going to post about my response to ibarw (International Blog Against Racism Week; visit the comm for links and discussion), and kept putting it off, because I get the sense that people's feelings are still rather raw, and goodness knows we don't need another round of "those Italians/Hungarians/Russians/Protestants/whatevers beat up my grandparents

Comments

[cofax7]

The anti-racist "we" may hold a variety of different attitudes toward antisemitism, and bringing the subject up might well end up fracturing that anti-racist "we." I sometimes get the sense that there is a certain amount of denial about this on the left.

That's a very good point. But could you unpack the bit about there being more anti-semitism on the left than the right?

I've had relatively little exposure to blatant anti-semitism, other than a bizarre conversation with a boyfriend of a roommate--he was astonished that I was Catholic, because, he said, "But Jesus was a Jew!". (@@ -- I'm still not sure he got the fundamental logical fallacy there, as Christianity is in many ways responsible for anti-semitism to begin with.)

Anyway, I thank you for this post. I think Chopchica's post was spot-on, and I think it's vital to remind people that to be Jewish is both a religious and a cultural/racial identity, which omg complicates things immensely.

[vaznetti]

But could you unpack the bit about there being more anti-semitism on the left than the right?

I think that sometimes support for the Palestinians on the left may create an atmosphere in which people feel that it's acceptable to make anti-semitic comments. I think that this may be more prevalent outside the US than inside it, although I have heard anecdotal evidence for Jews feeling excluded from e.g. anti-war events in the US.

And thanks.

[cofax7]

Ah, yes. The line between wishing for peace and justice in the middle east and blatant anti-semitism should be clear; and yet, for some people, it's strangely hard to identify. I felt quite uncomfortable at the tone of some of the speakers at the big peace rally I attended in 2003, because of that.

Thanks again for speaking.

[chopchica]

As somebody who went to an extremely liberal college and lived in an extremely liberal town (and is extremely liberal myself), I can't even count the number of times I've seen that sentiment expressed and gotten the vibe that I wasn't welcome unless I was willing to publicly denounce Israel and their fascist policies. Which I didn't do, obviously, and that makes it very hard to be a politically active liberal in today's world.

[jood]

Thank you for posting your crunchy thoughts on this

[vaznetti]

I've been pondering a new fic series featuring an openly Jewish protagonist, but I've been resisting; partly because I was afraid of the cries of "Mary Sue!", but also because i know how crazy fandom can get about religion.

I have been thinking of this as well, but am of two minds for the same reason. And of course, I've been writing pretty slowly anyway these days.

My husband isn't a religious person, and my in-laws are nothing but sweet, and the nuns don't mind that I'm a heathen, but I've found myself burying my Jewishness in an effort to both fit in and move ahead. Because when I was a little "too" Jewish, the boss would constantly make a point of mentioning it in groups, as if to indicate how very welcome and included I was.Ugh. My in-laws, too, are extremely sweet, but sometimes it feels like being a bug on a slide. I know they're only trying to make sure they don't accidentally offend me, but still. And yet at the same time I'm just as suspicious of other Jews, who I'm sure are secretly judging me for my bacon-eating and

[wiliqueen]

who I'm sure are secretly judging me for my bacon-eating

Not to make light of a serious and valuable post, but at least that headed off my mom's "OMG did I just cook an ENTIRE meal the guest can't eat?" panic attack...

[vaznetti]

I had totally forgotten that! Your mom would be amused to know that after writing this post I are scallops cooked in bacon for dinner.

[cassandre]

It's not like you to post on such a volatile/sensitive/personal topic, but I'm so glad you did. The post and links make for fascinating reading. I'm embarrassed to say how utterly oblivious I often am (as a non-Jew) to possible Jewish perspectives, until someone comes out and articulates them (although the original anti-semitic comment you link to is bad enough to make any decent person wince). The IBARW is a case in point. Did the issue of anti-semitism even cross my mind in that context? No. I also remember running into you in Oxford one December and you making a passing remark on how much more insensitive the UK is than the US when it comes to assuming the universality of Christmas. I had never noticed it before, but since you mentioned it, it's been so glaringly obvious to me every year that I don't know how I ever failed to notice it in the first place.

The anti-racist "we" may hold a variety of different attitudes toward antisemitism, and bringing the subject up might well end up fracturing that anti-racist "we." If so, then

[vaznetti]

Well, I think we all have things we're oblivious to -- until someone else comes along to point them out, and then we feel embarrassed. I think one of the useful things IBARW does is perform that function for a lot of people in fandom, myself included. And I understand why the kinds of conversations people can have are limited, there, but I still find it oppressive.

And thank you for commenting.

[elishavah]

I had a hard-copy post (i.e., something I was scribbling in a notebook in the wee hours, when I could bear to think about it) back during the first IBARW about this. Primarily about how 'being able to pass' feels at times like I'm being...it's more than being 'ignored,' it's being 'deliberately not thought about.' Because there IS the sense of 'don't you dare protest; it's not the same! Go away now, you who have nothing to truly complain about' that comes from all sides. Sometimes I honestly do think I'd rather be obviously Not The Same, because it's also about how it twists something hard inside me every time someone assumes that I am some form of Christian -- something that's happened a gazillion times in a gazillion ways, without any thought at all that it might be otherwise, and makes me feel like I simply don't exist. And about how that twist turns into nausea when it's something said without thought by someone who damn well knows that I am not. It doesn't matter that more often than not, it's not done with deliberate intent to

[vaznetti]

I'm tired of being silent on just about everything that matters to me, so, yeah. It's not the same. But it's not nothing, either.

Yes, I was getting tired of being silent -- and feeling silenced -- about this issue, and that post was what I needed to get me to not be silent. I grit my teeth through IBARW, and then decided it wasn't worth making a fuss about, but it turns out that it was.

...because it's also about how it twists something hard inside me every time someone assumes that I am some form of Christian -- something that's happened a gazillion times in a gazillion ways, without any thought at all that it might be otherwise, and makes me feel like I simply don't exist.This bothers me more at some times than it does at others; especially living outside the US you just have to kind of accept the fact that everyone thinks everyone else is Christian, and that the people who aren't should just shut up about it. But I do reserve the right to wish people a Happy Hanukkah when they wish me a Marry Christmas, because I like to see

[hossgal]

right to wish people a Happy Hanukkah when they wish me a Merry Christmas

Perhaps I'm confused, but I always thought this is what you were *supposed* to do - either respond with the appropriate 'blessing' of your own, or, if none applied, say "And the same to you!"

(Like, if I'm leaving, and another person's staying, they say "travel safe" and I say "you too" (generally out of reflex) or "stay safe".)

I get confused (and a bit defensive) when people say that I'm *not* supposed to wish random people Merry Christmas (or, "Happy Fourth!" or what ever) as the season dictates.

(I do think that more particular-religion-specific stuff (greeting cards with scripture verses or pictures, f'zample) might be best left to those people you're pretty sure will appreciate it.)

Your thoughts?

- hg

[vaznetti]

Perhaps I'm confused, but I always thought this is what you were *supposed* to do - either respond with the appropriate 'blessing' of your own, or, if none applied, say "And the same to you!"

I pretty much agree -- and don't really mind being wished a Merry Christmas -- but you would be surprised to know how many people actually look shocked and offended when I turn around and wish them a Happy Hanukkah. Some people smile and accept it, some people look a little surprised (up to standing with their mouths gaping open), but a lot of people get kind of huffy about it. That's when it gets a little offensive, I think -- it's all down to the way the person acts at that point.

Like, if I'm leaving, and another person's staying, they say "travel safe" and I say "you too" (generally out of reflex) or "stay safe".

I always say "you too," out of reflex, and then feel like a dolt.

[geekturnedvamp]

The anti-racist "we" may hold a variety of different attitudes toward antisemitism, and bringing the subject up might well end up fracturing that anti-racist "we." I sometimes get the sense that there is a certain amount of denial about this on the left.

I'm running back out the door, but earlier today some friends and I were saying exactly the same thing while discussing the posts you linked, and I am totally in agreement with you on this point... And I think what you say is partly why I feel like the antisemitism discussion might have the potential to get uglier than the discussions about race, but I'm still extremely glad you posted and I relate to a lot of this, so, thank you!

[vaznetti]

And I think what you say is partly why I feel like the antisemitism discussion might have the potential to get uglier than the discussions about race...

Yeah, that fear is what has kept me quiet on some of these issues, and because a lot of it is stuff I do not want to discuss with people on the internet -- so I'm glad that the post made sense to you.