This Clusterfuck In Which No One Has Any Good Options (a TVD s4 meta)

[upupa_epops]

TVD 4x08 confused the fuck out of me. Something was bugging me, and I didn't know what, so I decided to make myself useful and rewatch s4 so far during my study breaks. I'm almost done with the rewatch now, and I know what was bugging me: this season is nothing like I expected. I also decided that TVD doesn't really work that well watched on a week

Comments

[eilowyn]

I would put that gif of Orson Welles slow-clapping right here if I weren't currently on my phone. You've cut through to the heart of the issue, and clarified what choices the characters have. This could very well serve as a 4x01-4.08 primer, and I'll probably be going back to it when the show starts up again in the spring.

[upupa_epops]

Thank you :).

[lynnenne]

Stefan's lack of love comes from his fundamental belief that Elena MUST want to remain her human self, because otherwise his world doesn't make any sense.

I would add that Stefan's desire for Elena to remain human also stems from his own intense self-loathing. Stefan hates himself for all the evil he has committed as a vampire, and for his lack of self-control when it comes to the blood. He has never been able to understand how Damon could enjoy being a vampire or forgive himself for his crimes. Equally, he can't understand how Elena could ever choose to be the thing that he hates most about himself, when she could choose to be the opposite of everything Stefan is.

[upupa_epops]

Oh, you're absolutely right! Self-loathing is why Stefan has this strong "human = good" "vampire = evil" construct in his head.

[pocochina]

Elena's conflict is the Cure. She can either go looking for it, or give up on it and continue as a vampire....if Elena decides to look for the cure, she's fucked, and if Elena decides not to look for the cure... she's fucked.

Yeah. And it's why I enjoyed the party scenes so much. Elena is okay with being a vampire and she's all pleased with herself and ready to rejoin her comfortable place with her friends. She's so close to being able to admit that actually, she's okay with carrying on as a vampire, because she always survives. I think she floated the Damon thing in part to see if she could get them to understand her (when they just want her to live, I think, and just seeing that she is okay would be enough for them).

She'll never start a family, and it's beside the point whether or not she would want to start a family if she were human; what's cruel is that, as a human, she'd have years to figure it out, but if she stays a vampire, it's all sealed for her at the age of 18. Not really, though? Unless the cure expires at some point

[upupa_epops]

Not really, though? Unless the cure expires at some point. She legitimately has all the time in the world to make up her mind about kids. The thing she has to decide right now is who she wants to be for her friends, not who she wants to be for herself.

I can see your point. I came from the point of assumption that if they do get the cure, they'll be doing it with Klaus, and Klaus's impatience is what will make this into a "now or never" deal for Elena.

Or at least, he's the character who owns it most consistently. I don't know that he actually compels people more often than the other vampires, particularly once the Originals entered the scene.You're right, Klaus probably compels just as much. I guess Damon's compulsions tend to be more severe, less easy to wave off? He's one of the two characters who openly and on screen use compulsion to rape, and, unlike Katherine, he does it multiple times. He also lets human Elena use him as a compulsion tool to manipulate Jeremy. He's shown feeding from people for fun (as opposed to out of mere

[ever_neutral]

\o/ it's here!

Also, please don't use “this show is not smart enough to do this” as an argument. I don't care how smart this show is. This is what I read in text, and I don't care if the writers did it consciously or subconsciously.
Jesus bless. So bored of everyone's pissing and whining about this show. Newsflash, you don't earn a medal for whining the loudest. JFC.

When the show finally determines whether or not Elena is sired, and if she is, how far does Damon's influence go, it won't give us an answer to the question: “Does Elena love Damon?”. It will tell us how much of Elena is left in Elena.
Precisely. Which is why they cleared up the question of Elena's feelings so quickly. We now know FOR SURE that her feelings for him are real. Now we have far, far harder questions to deal with.

Even though the issue of dubious consent freaked me out big game when I first thought about it (and it's going to come into play, no matter if Elena and Damon end up having sex in the next few episode), it makes sense that it would appear.

[upupa_epops]

There's only so much complaining a girl can take, right? ;)

Which is why they cleared up the question of Elena's feelings so quickly. We now know FOR SURE that her feelings for him are real. Now we have far, far harder questions to deal with.

Preach. Now we can move on to Damon's satanic dick.

And in a twisted way I'm glad the writers are taking these kinds of risks with the pairing.

Now that I think about it: how could they not? If D/E happens so early in the series, it can't JUST happen.

*squishes you*

[upupa_epops]

Okay, so I have more thoughts.

And in a twisted way I'm glad the writers are taking these kinds of risks with the pairing.You know what I love? That D/E is becoming a problematic ship AGAIN. We already noticed that it was kind of a creepy thing to ship in s2, but in s3, the wrong!shipping went away, and Damon became the more functional option. It's brave that the show is throwing him back on the wrong track, but it was also time to do that. Because being his stable and relatively healthy self for much longer would kill his character arc and reduce him to his love relationships. Damon needed an ethical dilemma severe enough to shake him up, and the sire bond hits him where it hurts the most, in a very organic way. Damon doesn't give a fuck about other people's freedom, but he wants it to be real with Elena. Elena is special. Only now Elena isn't special. She's just as vulnerable as every other woman in Damon's life. He can't treat her as an exception. Bad boys don't change because of the love of a good woman. Their past comes back to

[vergoldung]

OH MY GOD WHAT ARE YOU DOING STOP

I just came to the conclusion that somewhere along the way I stopped shipping these stupid kids and now you have to ruin it all. THIS IS THE WORST AND IT MIGHT JUST RECONCILE ME WITH THEM. /oh no

Only now Elena isn't special. She's just as vulnerable as every other woman in Damon's life. He can't treat her as an exception. Bad boys don't change because of the love of a good woman. Their past comes back to bite them in the ass, and if you're locked in a spiral of abuse, you won't break out of it just because you fell for someone special. You have to actively work through your abusive tendencies if you want to get rid of them. They won't magically disappear just because you love this girl so much. You can love her, but you'll still hurt her.
WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS TO MEEEE
CANNOT CONTROL MYSELF RIGHT NOW WITH HOW MUCH I WANT THIS
WOE

[badboy_fangirl]

You know when I saw this post pop up, I was hesitant to even read it. I was like...I can't handle more complaints about how awful this show is! But now I have to ask for your forgiveness because I sometimes forget that you actually love it as much as I do.

I love this post because it makes the show that much MORE INTERESTING to me. And I finally kinda feel sorry for Stefan. (Still hate him a lot, though.) But, your concise analysis of his conflict is excellent. I mean, I get the rules aspect (in fact that whole thing makes me what to write a Stefan/Rules fic) and in some ways I'm like Stefan, which is probably why he annoys me. It will be very interesting to see him stop respecting Elena's *choices* as Damon tries to find a balance of giving her ALL THE CHOICES but never really knowing if it's working or not.

SO GREAT. I love my show.

I can't wait to see what happens next!

[upupa_epops]

Yeah, no need to fear about posts of negativity from me ;). I might make a negative episode reaction if I react violently to something, but after a few days, not really. It takes about 3-4 hours at least to make a proper meta post, and I couldn't be bothered to devote so much time to something I hated (unless it was REALLY serious and bothered me on some fundamental level -- which TVD didn't manage to do yet).

Ooooh, a fic about Stefan and rules sounds really interesting! See, I react to him negatively for an opposite reason: his attitude is just so alien to me that more often than not I want to shake him. I'm not built to follow systems of rules, and I'm very prone to making decisions based on ethics of care. So Stefan feels like an alien to me, and more often than not he scares me on a fundamental level. Morally, I'm Damon XD.