bring down the walls of churcheositysaint_magentaAugust 4 2005, 13:50:41 UTC
oh - i am SO hearing your song, mel!
we hang out with bikers and musicians with long hair, massive tattoos, loud voices and colourful language. some aren't Christian. that's the mission field we've been prepared for. these guys won't listen to someone who's squeaky kleen and foamin at the mouth about repentence. they've taken notice of that peculair peace and vision that Father has given to us. it's love that draws them - not the clashing cymbals of condemnation.
and ya know -
*i watch spongebob!* i luv his liddle underpants.
i hate it when fellow Christians do underwear checks. yes - we're to be accountable but God outfitted me today and if my armor is offensive, then maybe the offended need to ask the Captain about that.
we all need daily prayer - it's an ever-darkening world.
Re: bring down the walls of churcheosityunblinkableAugust 4 2005, 14:04:59 UTC
In the 21st century, it's almost EASIER to be called to YOUR ministry. That is, a lot of Christians are really getting excited about the people who are doing what you're doing... they see "getting dirty" as some calling that's better or more worthy. But what if you're ministry is to BE clean? And to reach people who are attracted to THAT? This is my problem. The solution SEEMS simple. Understand that there are MANY different means that God uses to draw people to him. Some are "dirty", some are "clean"... and most are somewhere in between. (I rhymed!). I'm just tired of the sideways glances that people from other parts of the country cast on Southerners (or ultra-conservatives, in general). There are bad apples in every barrel... there always will be. But that doesn't mean that the barrel shouldn't exist.
I'm probably not making sense now. I get mad and I ramble incoherantly. :D
Re: bring down the walls of churcheositysaint_magentaAugust 4 2005, 14:37:26 UTC
nope - you're making sense. it's all in the call. *:)
the clean/dirty thing split our church. it was agonizing - legalism vs. Christian liberty. it threw up walls between the brethren. they forgot their First Love and where they were found by Him.
we ALL need to do the first works - show His love through calvary’s cross to all creatures. THAT”S the cord that binds us. we have nothing to boast of - we don't embrace the dirt nor the clean. those are human conditions. we embrace HIM.
don't worry yourself over sideways glances. we're ALL peculiar in our way. *;D
But then, I was under the misapprehension that the phrase "Christian subculture" would refer to a movement within the Christian culture. You know? Whoops.
You are right, though, we are called out of the world. And you're also right about there being different ways to reach different people, and that disparate ways can be both right. It doesn't just vary from place to place, but from person to person.
I'm working on a sermonette with Chris...could I use some of your thoughts about North/East/South and that? Because it totally fits our theme, which is that we can all be called and be one without all having to look, act, and minister exactly alike.
Well, that's the point. Within the Christian "nation", there's going to be all of these diverse ways to live. God calls each of us to a different ministry based on how He's equipped us. I'm gonna look different than you. You're gonna look different than me. And that's OKAY... as long as neither of us are going against Scripture, then we should be encouraging our ministries and not dogging them.
I was telling my friend Tim (who called after he read this post), that in some parts of the country (as evidenced by certain LJs I've read), you're not really an EFFECTIVE Christian unless you're willing to cuss and listen to punk. And if you're a Believer who listens to "watered-down" Christian junk on the "w-hizluv" station, then you've obviously got no depth and are living a superficial walk.
I'm just tired of those assumptions.
Of course, *I* came to LJ with a lot of assumptions, too. All born from the fact that I've never experienced life outside of my personal culture. Jeney and I had LOTS of conversations about how to reach people. And what started out as something that totally freaked me out, became something that I understood and now actively pray about on her behalf! I guess I just want the people on the "dirtier" side of the fence to appreciate what MY subculture does as well. Cause neither is better or worse than the other.
It's like when people think a testimony is all the bad things you used to do that God brought you out of. And that you have to have a better 'testimony' than anyone and the worse you were, the better it is. But having lived a clean life is as much as a testimony as any. Maybe a better one, really.
I don't worry so much that "clean" christians will drive away unbelievers, as much as concerned that they'll get themselves so wrapped up in seclusion from unbelievers that they can no longer relate to them. But I know that's not you :D
I think I've come to the point where I'm more willing to live by my convictions without thinking twice about what other people think of what I'm doing. Maybe it's just a matter of really understanding why I do what I do. If I KNOW why I do what I do then I have less trouble explaining it in a way that doesn't make other people feel like I'm judging them
( ... )
I think new Christians are probably better off with a certain amount of exclusion for a while. When you're weak, it's easier to take a break from the world and grow a bit stronger in certain areas. I have no problem with that. Kellie is in a band that's looking for a lead guitarist... she'd REALLY like him to be a Christian because she's currently the only one in the group and she'd like some support in witnessing to the guys. But we talked about how hard it is to find one... you can't just walk up to the college campus and take any Christian male and place them into a group with OTHER college age guys who are drunks and sex addicts and just plain wild. Cause if you're weak in the Faith, then it might be doing you more harm than good. Anyway... that's just an example of what I'm thinking.
And just to clarify, you can have the personal conviction to abstain from alcohol and NOT be legalistic in doing so. Legalism, to me, is more about pushing those beliefs onto others.
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we hang out with bikers and musicians with long hair, massive tattoos, loud voices and colourful language. some aren't Christian. that's the mission field we've been prepared for. these guys won't listen to someone who's squeaky kleen and foamin at the mouth about repentence. they've taken notice of that peculair peace and vision that Father has given to us. it's love that draws them - not the clashing cymbals of condemnation.
and ya know -
*i watch spongebob!* i luv his liddle underpants.
i hate it when fellow Christians do underwear checks. yes - we're to be accountable but God outfitted me today and if my armor is offensive, then maybe the offended need to ask the Captain about that.
we all need daily prayer - it's an ever-darkening world.
don't flame me - light a candle for me.
*hugggg*
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I'm probably not making sense now. I get mad and I ramble incoherantly. :D
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the clean/dirty thing split our church. it was agonizing - legalism vs. Christian liberty. it threw up walls between the brethren. they forgot their First Love and where they were found by Him.
we ALL need to do the first works - show His love through calvary’s cross to all creatures. THAT”S the cord that binds us. we have nothing to boast of - we don't embrace the dirt nor the clean. those are human conditions. we embrace HIM.
don't worry yourself over sideways glances. we're ALL peculiar in our way. *;D
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we're to be accountable but God outfitted me today and if my armor is offensive, then maybe the offended and i need to ask the Captain about that.
accountability vanquishes pride with conviction.
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But then, I was under the misapprehension that the phrase "Christian subculture" would refer to a movement within the Christian culture. You know? Whoops.
You are right, though, we are called out of the world. And you're also right about there being different ways to reach different people, and that disparate ways can be both right. It doesn't just vary from place to place, but from person to person.
I'm working on a sermonette with Chris...could I use some of your thoughts about North/East/South and that? Because it totally fits our theme, which is that we can all be called and be one without all having to look, act, and minister exactly alike.
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And that's OKAY... as long as neither of us are going against Scripture, then we should be encouraging our ministries and not dogging them.
You certainly can! :D
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I was telling my friend Tim (who called after he read this post), that in some parts of the country (as evidenced by certain LJs I've read), you're not really an EFFECTIVE Christian unless you're willing to cuss and listen to punk. And if you're a Believer who listens to "watered-down" Christian junk on the "w-hizluv" station, then you've obviously got no depth and are living a superficial walk.
I'm just tired of those assumptions.
Of course, *I* came to LJ with a lot of assumptions, too. All born from the fact that I've never experienced life outside of my personal culture. Jeney and I had LOTS of conversations about how to reach people. And what started out as something that totally freaked me out, became something that I understood and now actively pray about on her behalf! I guess I just want the people on the "dirtier" side of the fence to appreciate what MY subculture does as well. Cause neither is better or worse than the other.
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(I'm getting caught up).
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The idea that divine health is better than divine healing applies here.
Better to not have had to be rescued from the crack house to begin with.
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I don't worry so much that "clean" christians will drive away unbelievers, as much as concerned that they'll get themselves so wrapped up in seclusion from unbelievers that they can no longer relate to them. But I know that's not you :D
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And just to clarify, you can have the personal conviction to abstain from alcohol and NOT be legalistic in doing so. Legalism, to me, is more about pushing those beliefs onto others.
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