[controversial] on transmisogyny and male privilege

[aaskew]

(apologies in advance because this possibly comes across as a 'what about the menz? :(' post. I've tried my best not to make it so, but this is a topic I'd like to discuss further

Comments

[the_physicist]

I think it's probably a very individual thing as it depends on the trans man in question. Most will have been brought up as girls so they will have an understanding of sexism that most cis men lack and the sexist expectations society placed o them will have affected their lives -- again, something cis men don't go through.

After transitioning though... If they pass they enjoy male privilige especially from those who don't know their are trans*.
If they dont pass though, male privilige like you said, probably won't apply.

Also, we hear that there are more trans women than men. Is that because of biological factors or social factors though? I would not be surprised in the least if the ratio was actually the same but skewed by trans men the world over being denied access to the resources to educate themselves and transition or even feel like they can speak up about this.

[the_physicist]

I see what you mean. they saw you as 'butch lesbian' so you didn't have to put up with 'be a good housewife and bear children!' stuff, but then they threw a truck load of homophobia on you. :( I'm really sorry you had to put up with that crap.

[varanus]

Yeah, it kinda sucked.

But I have to say that it wasn't all bad, and my pre-transition life has dovetailed very neatly with my current life, in a way that I don't think would be as easy if I'd actually been treated like a girl/woman. Being seen as an ersatz man isn't the worst thing in the world for someone who feels himself to be an actual man.

[aaskew]

"one of Kael Block's excuses for why he couldn't be a rapist is because he is a trans man."

that... what. how does that even work. rapists come from all genders.

[the_physicist]

Same thoughts as the above poster O_o

[the_physicist]

That's very interesting. Until i found this comm and other forums on the internet recently I only had my own experiences to go and those of the few people I have so far talked to online. There experiences were more in line with mine, i.e. very different from yours. So thank you for sharing your experiences with me.

[aaskew]

It's great to hear the three experiences shared here, because I'd never known what it was like in-depth. So thanks for sharing!

Based on which my own experience was much closer to that of the_physicist's, in which I was more or less treated as a girl or woman in society and had the same expectations and prejudices placed on me. As such, if I went by my own experiences as being representative of "women", I would definitely say that sexism exists, and very obviously so

[the_physicist]

for instance being bombarded with advertisements for bust enhancement

those did actually affect me and send me into a huge fit of rage, lmao. i was teased for having a small chest. i'm actually a D cup, but i guess i was great at hiding that, lol ;). and that teasing was increadibly vicious and so i did have issues that were very confusing more me to deal with as a teenager. not wanting the breasts and got in my way and hurt me and felt in no way good, but... also wanting them to be bigger. i think i'd convinced myself that i would't be hating them if they were bigger and 'normal'.

to this day, adverts like that or comments about flat chested women not being real women send me into a massive fit of rage.

[dogboi]

I can relate to varanus and gender_euphoric. Just to flesh out how this worked for me

[the_physicist]

I do think that it is true that a lot of people, girls too, might only become aware of sexism when they are teenagers. Not that it doesn't affect them earlier, but maybe it is because it affects teenagers more and they are more grown up to start to recognise sexism for what it is. I know many girls and my school didn't and still don't understand that a lot of things that are sexist are just that (though a lot more have had their eyes opened once they left school and even before then when they realised from talking to older/other female friends what challenges they would face). There's a lot of internalised misogyny around

[aaskew]

I was actually aware of sexism as early as kindergarten (~4 years old), although I don't know how much of that was just gender dysphoria. I remember thinking it wholly unfair that the boys got all the cool stuff (better toys, more practical clothes, conversations I was actually interested in, the ability to stand up and pee, etc) and the girls got the boring lousy stuff that didn't make any sense. I clearly remember thinking that it was unfair that you couldn't choose your own gender, and that if you could, I would have totally chosen to be a boy. Shortly after I learnt about the existence of sexism (I was a perceptive kid) and thought ohhhh, that explains everything

[the_physicist]

i guess this proves that i should have just stuck to 'it depends on the individual' and left my response at that, hahahah

[aaskew]

Basically generalisations don't work. XD Though it might be interesting to know what kinds of trans male pre-transition experiences were more common in terms of self-conception and how this affected perceptions of sexism

[the_physicist]

I developed a fear that people would find out that I wanted to be a boy...and so ended up overcompensating by being generally compliant to all the gender stuff that was forced on me.

are you me? ;) i understand you so much.

I do a hell of a lot of exercise and always have and yeah, it's a bummer that I just can't get those muscles. I'm starting more weight training now (well, not this week as I'm currently recovering from a slipped disk), but then I'm back to my exercise routine of excessive training in the hope that i can be slightly less puny (i'm still a US size 0-2, so yeah... oh well, i hope the extra weight training might work).