The projected strength of your opinion and convictions really impress me. You sound like you really have an idea of what you believe, and the limits of that belief and practice. I envy that more than I describe.
May I ask, if you don't mind, why you refuse to write the pronoun God in full? I am aware why others do this, but I'd like to know your personal reasons. It certainly must be a pain in the neck, so it strikes me, as does your entire description, again like part of this great strength of conviction you have to pursue this habit.
Thank you so much for answering this question. I appreciate that show of faith in itself.
As I said, I draw from various religious teachings for my own personal structure. I was taught, in a class on Judaism as a Civilization, that the Jewish faith treats the word and name of G-d with great reverence, especially with the written word. If I scribe the complete name of G-d on a piece of paper, which then gets wet, or burns, or is otherwise damaged, destroyed, or desecrated, have I disrespected the name? And there was actually I've always had a big problem with watching my language - I can at times swear like a sailor, and that included using the name of G-d in vain. Over the past 5 or 6 years I've been trying very much to cut both the vain usage and the swearing as a whole. It's an extremely hard habit to break (oddly enough, using the name in vain is harder to break than swearing in general...), but I figured to adopt such a habit of at least not writing the full name would teach me a bit of discipline. If I'm going to use the word, at least when written, I think about it.
ah - sorry, part of the first paragraph got cut off.
*And there was actually a big debate as to if the full name was typed on a word-processor... was it disrespectful when the document was closed, or when the word scrolled off the screen? Many Jewish people that I interacted with in college chose to write G-d instead, and I decided to adopt the practice too, to show proper reverence. (Continue to second paragraph...)
Faith vs religionkumir_k9June 7 2007, 22:13:14 UTC
For me, there's a huge difference between religion and faith. Religion is an organized method of expressing faith. As a human creation, it's prone to problems, but it's also a good way to bring community together to celebrate faith. People who have to show up every Sunday at 9:30 tend to remember that they're supposed to celebrate their faith
( ... )
Re: Faith vs religionladyliloJune 7 2007, 22:52:34 UTC
Well - regarding the background check and the like... it was perhaps a bit overboard, but keep in mind the people are just trying to ensure that their community stays safe and supportive, and that the people who serve as potential role-models to the congregation are indeed worthy of holding the position.
Re: Faith vs religionkumir_k9June 8 2007, 00:21:27 UTC
In my opinion, they should do better background checks on priests before letting them into the priesthood and focus a little less on people who have been serving as volunteers for 40 years whose only function in the church publicly is singing in a choir with no contact with children
( ... )
Re: Faith vs religiontracerooJune 8 2007, 13:11:41 UTC
Thank you for making yourself so available and open to my questions. They may yet come in time!
I find your thinking and phrasing of, "Does it hurt me at all to believe?" very interesting. I have often heard the arguement, "May as well believe since you lose nothing if you're wrong, and win big if you're right!" I find that perspective foolish - like I could flip the switch on true belief! You put a spin on it that makes me think, however. So much of my atheism is based in skepticism, the "common sense" approach that some idea is silly, or fantastic as a child might believe. But really, what's the harm? I haven't thought of it so positively in awhile. I will dedicate meditation time to that in this stretch of the road.
Thank you, and it's here for the sharingtracerooJune 8 2007, 13:27:26 UTC
I like to think that I'm not alone in careful analysis of spirituality and this quest. I sincerely believe in the power of lending benefit of the doubt (even if often, so often, need a conscious reminder to do so!). I like to think that anyone who says they're agnostic makes a conscious choice to check in now and then, meditate and pray a little, if you will. It's just a topic of conversation that is often unwelcome or risky in polite society, so maybe we don't hear about it too often
( ... )
Re: Thank you, and it's here for the sharingaveryslaveJune 8 2007, 14:50:18 UTC
You're basically correct -- I'm not active in my religion at the moment. When I was younger I used to get so much fulfillment out of it, like thos kids in Jesus Camp, but now it falls mostly deaf. I've been meaning to actually pick up and just read the Bible cover-to-cover for a couple of years now, as part of figuring out exactly where I stand. But, of course, there's always something else that needs doing.
So I do believe in God, but I don't know what that means. I believe that if He is truly out there, it is highly likely that we're misinterpreting or outright fabricating the signs and guidance. We're human. It's sort of our thing. But by taking a step back from religion, I have consciously (and sometimes with great effort) refused to step back from my belief in God. I felt something once, and I want to figure out what that means. And, as I said before, science seems like just so much faith to me so why choose that over this
( ... )
Ramble ramble ramble :)cameljoeJune 8 2007, 00:21:21 UTC
I am a christ follower .. I used to say I am a christian , i was active in church growing up.. did the mission trips in high school , very active in youth, puppet team ect ect .. then my dad started getting really sick and that was the tip of the iceburg ,then the youth pastor i looked up to was asked to move on from the pastor.. then the pastor asked the music guy to move on.. and then the pastor was found to be having an affair with one of the office staff.. this really pushed me over the edge .. how could a church that i loved , and a leader be this messed up.. then i moved on to college at a christian college and the music teacher was very pushy in her belief at least was to me at that time .. and i got pushed farther away and started drinking and partying ect .. i really fell out of my walk with God.. went to church still cause i had to but totally doubted my religion and my belief system
( ... )
The Church That Rocks!tracerooJune 8 2007, 13:32:39 UTC
Wow, that's refreshing and really neat. Were we not moving in a few weeks, I'd love to attend your church sometime to check it out. I'm delighted for you and your wife that you have a place that feels like home.
Your answer to my questions focuses so strongly around your relationship with your church, may I ask, for you is religion the conduit to spirituality? Some people feel that religion stifles their faith and their personal relationship with God. For you, your church clearly helps you define it. Is your worship more about life and community than something more internal, then?
Thank you so much, Big Red Barrel, for sharing this with me! :)
Re: The Church That Rocks!cameljoeJune 8 2007, 21:42:04 UTC
Well for me , my church really made my faith stronger .. When i was younger it showed me the way , then I was weak in faith and religion all together and slowly became stronger and stronger while i was churchless .. but then i found the church that rocks and it just grew so fast
( ... )
Everybody has an opinion on Texas, which strikes me funny. My Georgian friends keep warning me, "It's so hot down there! And they talk funny!" No joke. Hearing a Yankee tell me to watch out because their wear their religion on their sleeve is equally amusing to be (being natively from Southern California, if you never knew, or had forgotten). My experience living in New England was always, "Assume Catholic first, ask questions later
( ... )
I hope this helps, and if it's not very clear, I do say sorry up front. I'm not the best at expressing myself clearly. That said here goes... I also have problems with organized religion, but have never thought of it from the POV you laid out above. I think I just have a big problem with one religion feeling as though it's the 'right' one. I'm just not convinced one belief is the 'right' belief
( ... )
Comments 68
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May I ask, if you don't mind, why you refuse to write the pronoun God in full? I am aware why others do this, but I'd like to know your personal reasons. It certainly must be a pain in the neck, so it strikes me, as does your entire description, again like part of this great strength of conviction you have to pursue this habit.
Thank you so much for answering this question. I appreciate that show of faith in itself.
Trace
Reply
I've always had a big problem with watching my language - I can at times swear like a sailor, and that included using the name of G-d in vain. Over the past 5 or 6 years I've been trying very much to cut both the vain usage and the swearing as a whole. It's an extremely hard habit to break (oddly enough, using the name in vain is harder to break than swearing in general...), but I figured to adopt such a habit of at least not writing the full name would teach me a bit of discipline. If I'm going to use the word, at least when written, I think about it.
So, in short, I'm trying to show respect.
Reply
*And there was actually a big debate as to if the full name was typed on a word-processor... was it disrespectful when the document was closed, or when the word scrolled off the screen? Many Jewish people that I interacted with in college chose to write G-d instead, and I decided to adopt the practice too, to show proper reverence.
(Continue to second paragraph...)
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I find your thinking and phrasing of, "Does it hurt me at all to believe?" very interesting. I have often heard the arguement, "May as well believe since you lose nothing if you're wrong, and win big if you're right!" I find that perspective foolish - like I could flip the switch on true belief! You put a spin on it that makes me think, however. So much of my atheism is based in skepticism, the "common sense" approach that some idea is silly, or fantastic as a child might believe. But really, what's the harm? I haven't thought of it so positively in awhile. I will dedicate meditation time to that in this stretch of the road.
Thank you - as always.
T.
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So I do believe in God, but I don't know what that means. I believe that if He is truly out there, it is highly likely that we're misinterpreting or outright fabricating the signs and guidance. We're human. It's sort of our thing. But by taking a step back from religion, I have consciously (and sometimes with great effort) refused to step back from my belief in God. I felt something once, and I want to figure out what that means. And, as I said before, science seems like just so much faith to me so why choose that over this ( ... )
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Your answer to my questions focuses so strongly around your relationship with your church, may I ask, for you is religion the conduit to spirituality? Some people feel that religion stifles their faith and their personal relationship with God. For you, your church clearly helps you define it. Is your worship more about life and community than something more internal, then?
Thank you so much, Big Red Barrel, for sharing this with me! :)
Trace
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