No thanks, man. I'm fine.

[tongodeon]

A few years ago at Burning Man someone brought a copy of "You Are Going To Prison", an advice book by Jim Hogshire about the penal system. It starts with the basics like the difference between being "detained" and "arrested", what to say (and not say) during these interactions, what happens when you're booked, what to do (and avoid) when you're in

Comments

[mastadge]

What's the basis of Hogshire's advice?

I mean, I'd think, on the basis of too many movies, that when you're the new fish in prison and someone offers you something, if you don't take it you've made an enemy right there. Take it and owe someone something, or don't take it and be the ungrateful shit, and maybe get your ass kicked for that. I'd imagine that in prison, as in any other social situation, it's not easy to exist independently; somewhere you're going to have to make a choice about what to take and what exchanges you're going to make.

[tongodeon]

He didn't suggest refusing the gift arrogantly in a way that makes the other person lose face, he recommended politely declining the gift on the basis that you were already "set" and not needing any help. This is partly to avoid getting railroaded into prison sex, partly to maintain the appearance of being strong not needing anyone's help, and partly just to avoid getting caught up in inconvenient allegiances. He suggested that it was in many cases easier to exist independently, and when it wasn't to be able to broker those allegiances on your own terms and not from a position of indebtedness.

I'm not sure what you mean by "the basis of Hogshire's advice". I got the feeling that he and his friends had been in prison and the basis of his advice was personal experience.

[mastadge]

That's exactly what I meant: had he been in prison? Spoken to prisoners? Read accounts of prison life? Was he just making stuff up?

[willyumtx]

A college friend told me that the trick to surviving while incarcerated was to act as if you are willing and capable of doing most anything. Being slightly crazy. He spoke from experience.

[lutherm1]

I actually agree with the, "No Thanks, I'm fine" sentiment wholeheartedly, and I'm kind of surprised to hear this line of conversation from someone other than me.

I understand that there are people in the world who are inherently kind/giving, and expect nothing in return for gifting actions. Personally though, when I receive most gifts, I'm faced with some self-imposed (and arguably irrational) obligation to return the favour. I'm also notoriously horrible at GIVING gifts, so... I'd rather refuse a gift and avoid the situation entirely.

[xtingu]

Personally though, when I receive most gifts, I'm faced with some self-imposed (and arguably irrational) obligation to return the favour.

I try to maintain a no-gift policy, even on birthdays.
I don't like owing people stuff, which is funny, because I do like giving gifts. *shrug*

[cactusthesaint]

Things are pretty extreme at your workplace if you do have to worry about being coerced into prison sex.

I am pretty much the same way as you - I will gladly do favors for others, but do not like accepting them myself.

[gaping_asshole]

"Things are pretty extreme at your workplace if..."

You have no idea!! :)

[xiphias]

In NORMAL situations, not prison economies or other economies of extreme scarcity and/or coercion, gift economies have a pro-social effect.

A gift economy doesn't work on a quid pro quo basis, but rather on a basis of reputation. A person who is generous gains a reputation for generosity, which is a form of social status. Generosity need not be physical, though. If you rarely give out cookies or presents, but, in a work situation, are always willing to help someone else out with their projects, that ALSO counts as status-building generosity.

Refusing to participate in the gift economy sets you outside the economy and the society in which it operates. In a prison situation, that is desirable. In a work situation or a friendship situation, that is not so desirable.

[cdk]

Requesting help is also a way of forming social bonds. It took a long time for me to understand that when I take pains to refuse assistance, whether by not asking for help when it's obvious I need it, or by refusing help when it's offered, I'm communicating "I'm not interested in acquiring social ties to you."

[zadcat]

Prison is just a metaphor for the existential jam we're all stuck in.

I occasionally think that one of the reasons for all the modern refusals to eat or drink certain things is so we can refuse offers with a plausible excuse. We're not even aware ourselves that being vegan, non-gluten-consuming, teetotaling, kosher or halal means we're able to erect a shell of notional protection around us - but it does.

See also...

[tongodeon]

http://tongodeon.livejournal.com/647220.html