Waterboarding, Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, and the US Bank Tower Plot

[tongodeon]

The biggest, best example of the success and effectiveness of torture is the plot to destroy Los Angeles's US Bank Tower, which we learned about from waterboarding Khaled Sheikh Mohammed:

Not only did they break Khaled Sheikh Mohammed; not only was the information he gave them valuable; not only did it save lives; but Ross’s sources include people

Comments

Facts schmacts, you can use facts to prove anything that is even remotely true...

[jsbowden]

There you go, confusing people with facts.

Don't make me label you an enemy combatant.

Re: Facts schmacts, you can use facts to prove anything that is even remotely true...

[drieuxster]

oh yeah!!! I got the Big Heavy Hard From That ONE!!!!!

Yeah!! Yeah!!!!!

I say we repatriate His Evil Liberalisms!!!!

and this proves what???

[drieuxster]

Remember to the fans of TORTURE there is no need for anything factual. Facts are a secondary, if at all, trivial detail to the process!!!

So why should it even MATTER that the stories about the successful use of TORTURE are not the ones that correlate to actual Intelligence Coups that lead to "actionable intelligence".

Remember in the Current Post Surrealist Culture there is no longer a NEED for facts or Reality!!!

Torture is the Most WorkingISt thing, EVER!!! Because Dubya says that he needs it to be able to win against the Bad People!!! Therefore it must be the coolest thing, EVER!!!

[xiphias]

Remember: torture can't get you accurate information. What it can do is get someone to say something that you want them to say. So, since they knew about shoe bombs, they can say, "Are you gonna use shoe bombs?"

This doesn't even demonstrate that Khaled Sheikh Mohammed had information -- only that the interregators did.

[tongodeon]

I've been thinking the same thing. The SERE interrogation tactics that his interrogators used were used in Vietnam, Cambodia, and Russia to extract confessions from prisoners. These frequently false confessions were broadcast or published as propaganda to convince the public that genuine dangerous spies, traitors, and criminals had been captured by the government's effective and successful efforts. Whether the confession was legitimate was not important.

I don't know whether KSM's waterboarding revealed any new information, but I *do* know that his confession is being heavily broadcast by our government to convince the public that genuine dangerous spies, traitors, and criminals have been captured by the government's effective and successful efforts.

[xiphias]

I've been thinking it for a while.

Our interrogators use techniques they picked up in SERE training. SERE is designed to allow captured soldiers to resist the torture techniques which the Communists used. Therefore, the techniques they are using are the ones the Communists used.

The Communists' techniques were specifically designed to get false confessions. That's what they were FOR.

Possibilities are two: one, nobody in the miliatry or government has realized that using techniques designed to get false information is unlikely to get true information, or two, and scarier: that's the point in the first place.

[tongodeon]

The Communists' techniques were specifically designed to get false confessions. That's what they were FOR.

No, they were designed to get confessions. They hoped that they'd gotten the right guy, and if they did it would have been a bonus, but they weren't overly concerned about it.