Even in death you still look sad.

[tir_synni]

I'm constantly getting interrogated about this whenever the subject comes up: why are you so interested in religion if you're an atheist? There tend to be heavy implications of denial on my part surrounding these questions. I try to explain, but I don't think many people get it.

Comments

[sinnatious]

'Why are you so interested in religion if you're an atheist?' Then why are they so interested in converting people to their religion if they're not Christian/Catholic/Jewish/Muslim/whatever? :/ Wouldn't everybody be happy if everyone else minded their own business? I think religious people dislike atheists who are interested in religion, because then they know their arguments, and the opposition's ignorance is no longer a claimable defence

[sinnatious]

Y'see, this is where we get back to some wicked-cool ideas. :D God has a split personality!

Ah, but this is where it gets confusing to the average practioner of Catholic faith. They have saints they pray to/through for cancer, or for lost pets, or any other number of grievances, asking for a miracle. Because hey, they performed miracles in order to be canonised as saints, correct? Two of them, in fact. Doesn't the performing of miracles make them gods? Oh, unless they were simply a vessel through which God performed the miracle, but why would God need a channel to do that through if he's God? Why pray to a middle man? Why would you need to petition a gal with great contacts if God were truly so omniscient? He would already know.

I could have fun with this logic for hours. :D Very amusing indeed.

[kimerastorm]

hmmmm

This is how it was explained to me years ago.
If youre the younger sibling having a problem, and you dont want to bother your parents with it who do you go to?
Well you go to the older sibling who's already been through it.

Saints are like humanity's older siblings. Anthony is great at finding things, Barbra is good at making things blow up, Mary well lets just say shes the big guy's favorite (she is referred to as the only human born without the taint of original sin aka the immaculate conceptioin) for obvious reasons and when you need serious help you go straight to her.

Does any of this help or just make it more confusing?

[tir_synni]

I had it described to me in a Judaism class that there really was no heaven or hell, just the next step. Then Hell came with its imagery of a pit filled with fire and all that fun stuff. I've definitely heard the theme of Hell simply being the absence of God, but I generally hear it more from movies and books relying on the Bible for inspiration as opposed to religious people.

Mental note: check out Kabbalistic texts.

I think when it comes to accidents, those are just accidents. It's part of the whole parent/child process. Sometimes, shit just happens. A parent picks up the kid after, and in God's case, it tends to be after death.

*shrugs* When everyone bitches about how could such-and-such happen, where was God, I tend to focus on the free will thing. Of all the arguments against God, that was actually one I never gave a lot of credence to.

[akahoshi]

*tip toes in* I hope I am not totally lame for saying this, but on the issue of believers not liking non-believers, I just wanted to say that I am a Christian and I have no problem whatsoever with non-believers. My best friend is agnostic and she too is muchly into reading up on all manner of different beliefs and I enjoy her sharing her perspectives with me. So, as usual, I have nothing earth shattering in the way of contribution- I just, hate that there is a sense of us verses them- even though that conflict is inherent to religion. But at least you will have heard it from one Christian that you are valued and accepted. That doesn't get said often enough.

[anmita]

I don't thing it's a versus for all of us. Many people just tend to group a large number together because it's easier.

I have absolutely no problem with Christians at large. I was raised around them. I'm familiar with them. I don't share their beliefs, and they don't share mine. That's fine with me too.

Nobodies trying to convince anybody of anything, until they are. And that's where these rants spawn from. The Christians and religious people who are dicks. It's just shitty that when they do that they're entire group gets badmouthed. Kind of the way that any fight or disagreement goes though, so it's to be expected.

:C

[tir_synni]

*laughs* It's more like "If you call yourself an atheist but you study religion, then you obviously believe but are in denial." If I just say I'm an atheist, some people disbelieve because they don't believe in atheists, period. Others expect me to grow out of it. *points at Dad* A decent amount don't care. It's when they hear that I'm studying religion that some people get haughty and claim I'm just in denial.

Also, for as much as I rant about religion on my lj, I tend to be much more tactful and respectful in person. ^^;;; Often in RL it's not religious people who get me pissed; it's people who would be positive they're in the right anyway and use religion to back them up.

[anmita]

You know it's funny, because the Atheists that I've met have a far more vast knowledge of religion than the worshipers in question.

Knowing why you don't follow the flock is just as useful as knowing why you do. I've never had anyone say I was in denial, but if anyone ever did, I'd ask them of they'd rather me badmouth their book without knowing what was in it.

[anmita]

90% of present day Christianity and rennewed religious texts = peganism and bullcrap

And yet many people are still completely ignorant of the practices they act out's history and meaning. Then in combination with that they turn up their noses and hide behind a book that's been reprinted more times than Tiberius had boy slaves.

That's why it's so interesting to me. I mean, who wouldn't want to know every little detail of what spawned such a fanatical volley of lies and contradictions?

That and I find Satan an interesting subject. I was raised being told that angels were obedient only to god, with no will but his will. And well, that's bullcrap if satan rebelled. So I always look for more cracks in the manger.

[tir_synni]

Over a century ago, learning the Bible and studying it were good things. After that, though, it became believed that actually knowing your stuff hurt your faith. In a warped way, I kind of get it, but it still breaks my brain.

The Bible is kinda fucked up, anyway. It's name simply means "The Book," but it's made up of who knows how many independent stories that get weaved into one timeline. Then you have the various translations over time. Like Moses' shining face? Actually is translated into horns. Yep. Moses had horns. I'm going to write a story about that someday, I swear.

I'm kind of sorry for the angels. The main times they get called up in the Bible is to kill someone. Yeesh.

[anmita]

I can't wrap my head around that. Mainly a large reason why I probably lean more away from religion among other reasons. I cannot blindly believe in something. I need to know the why, the how, the whole shabangabang.

It's a pet peeve of mine.

I'll do art for it if you write it. I swear to god I will.

The warshands of god. I can say though, that I understand the popular myth about the devil.I mean, we are nasty ratty creatures, and if put in the situation he was, I'd give god the finger too.

Did you know that vampiric mythology actually spawns from god cursing Kain?

[tir_synni]

I think I've heard of that, but only via video game. As far as I know, the main part of the whole vampire myth started from the same disease that helped inspire the werewolf myth. I think a king in England even had the disease. I'll have to look it up and clarify sometime.

Honestly, I love the concept of angels being the assassins of God. It makes me nervous when someone says an angel is watching over me, true, but pointing that out to the same person saying that is awesome.

[yamino_datenshi]

I just had this argument with my sister this morning, though I was going more along the lines of God really not being our benevolent god, and Jesus being sortof hypocritical. Why change water to wine? Why not purified water? So they can get drunk? And why should the poor woman who spent every last penny she have be guaranteed a place in heaven? Because she paid her way? If God was really a benevolent god, why kill an entire civilization, only sparing Noah's family? Or give people no way to communicate for building a huge-ass tower?
And the bible! Why does god have people write down stories of himself? Why would God write a book about himself, even if through other people? Couldn't this just be Satan's way of testing humans as you say, or even his story? Wouldn't it be like him to say "I want a sacrifice, and it would be even better if you made it my own son".
And why do we pray with your faces towards the ground, where hell is supposedly at?
I dunno, random thoughts that just pushed my buttons over the years :)
.

[tir_synni]

To that whole rant, I shall simply said this: the actual translation concerning Moses isn't his "shining face," it's the horns sticking out of his head. :)

[sakurakat]

There was this quote I kept running across a while back on youtube and stuff. It was a passage all about Moses and his army - it looks like it comes after the whole pharoh deal, so it's supposedly the same moses.
It has him leading his army around and pillaging villages, killing every living person in them ('Amorites at Heshbon' - Numbers 21:27-35), except for one village, where they kept from killing all the female virgins so they could be taken by his army (Medianite - Numbers 31:17-18). Then they're ordered to go destroy 60 more cities (Deuteronomy 3:3-7).
All supposedly on orders from God.

http://www.evilbible.com/evils%20of%20the%20torah.htm

[tir_synni]

Yeah, I've read Evil Bible before. *shudders* Yeesh.