Stirring up some controversy... Please reply with your thoughts.

[thestoryofmikeb]

Well, its Saturday night, and I'm relaxing at home for a bit.  (I.E. Sitting on my ass in bed, watching TV and playing online doing nothing at all.)

I'm feeling incredibly lazy and unmotivated, but I guess we all have those moments.

Nothing particularly huge right now in this moment to share, I just felt like writing something.  Maybe I'll surf the

Comments

[halia7]

I dunno... I think circumcision is a good thing. If Corey and I ever had a boy, we'd get it done right away. It's more hygienic in my opinion. Plus, from a sexual standpoint I think it's a big turnoff for (most) women not to be.

The no lips thing just totally freaks me out. I don't really see the purpose of it either. Dentistry is advanced enough at this point that I think removing the lips to brush your teeth better seems very impractical.

[thestoryofmikeb]

Thanks for writing! The no-lips (labectomy) thing is 100% satire, meant to mimick some of the typical rationales for circumcision in the US.

I was googling a bit, and it seems like currently in the US, only about 50% of newborn boys are being circumcised now, as opposed to almost 90% in 1980.

I'm just realizing that by the time my (future) kids are of age to be sexually active, their partners will be just as likely to see intact guys as they are to see circ'd guys.

As I research this more, I see less and less of a reason to do this to our children... Just seems un-needed and silly to me. After 3 million years of humans being on the planet and each generation weeding out 'what doesnt work' I'd expect us to be born with things we need. :)

[sneezymouse]

I would have to agree that it is unnecessary. As having dated both a circumsised and or uncurcumsised, I can honestly say that there is no difference in hygeine. It is laziness to say that you have problems with "hygeine" when a child is uncircumcised. We teach our children to brush their teeth and wash their butts, why can't we teach them to properly wash their penises.

I also agree with everything that was said about sexual sensation for the female, and I've been told by circumcised men about how much they love their foreskin's freedom to move (although, using a condom does take away from this a little).

In other words, I don't plan on circumcising my children, and don't see any good reason to do so.

[thestoryofmikeb]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this! :) Its refreshing to hear from a woman who can offer your perspective.

In your second paragraph... perhraps you meant to say:

"I've been told by UNcircumcised (intact) men about how much they love their foreskin's freedom to move (although, using a condom does take away from this a little)."

Thanks for writing!

[christophedekkr]

interesting read. i was aware of a lot of the things in the article but it was interesting to read more about the subject. my anthro professor last spring went off about this one day, citing how its a remnant of victorian sexual repression and is meant to be a deterrant against female sexuality ("as men are inherrantly afraid of this"). a bit of elightenment at 3.45am regardless.

thanks.
cheers.

[thestoryofmikeb]

Thanks for replying, and I can imagine how an anthropology prof can see the big picture on this issue.

As I research this more, it looks like (in the US at least) the idea was promoted to discourage masturbation in boys, or even as punishment in some cases.

It looks like over time, circumcision in the US became "the solution in search of a problem." The medical profession comes up with something new every generation...

[From: http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcision.org/info/unnecessary.html]... )

[halia7]

Have you taken into account people's religious/spiritual thoughts on circumcision? It's not purely a medically driven procedure for many parents.

Also, studies and medical reports can often be biased (I know from personal experience with my surgery). I think in this case it may be more biased than usual because of people's very strong opinions on the subject. So, it's important to remember where you're getting your information from.

Personally, I still believe it's a hygiene issue. If the guy doesn't clean himself well enough, not only is he harming himself but his sexual partner. Women are much more prone to genital infections than men are, so even if the guy thinks he's clean, there's a good chance he's really not. Folds of skin can trap all kinds of bacteria that the eye can't see.

My two cents.

[thestoryofmikeb]

Agreed that medical reports can be biased... I was actually looking for some studies that presented strong medical evidence that circumcision is beneficial, and I'm having hard time finding anything that is remotely convincing for me on medical grounds. Also, looking at what the AAP says...

AMERICAN ACADEMY OF PEDIATRICS STATEMENT
"Existing scientific evidence demonstrates potential medical benefits of newborn male circumcision; however, these data are not sufficient to recommend routine neonatal circumcision. In circumstances in which there are potential benefits and risks, yet the procedure is not essential to the child's current well-being, parents should determine what is in the best interest of the child. To make an informed choice, parents of all male infants should be given accurate and unbiased information and be provided the opportunity to discuss this decision. "Good call that it is religious for many folks, and I completely agree that some people decide to do it for those reasons. I'm never able to tell anyone what do to

[halia7]

I think it's good to question things, I would never suggest to blindly follow something (especially this serious) without thinking about your own opinions first.

The female genital mutilation is something I'm not in favor of. That being said, female and male genitalia have very different types of skin tissue. They are of different texture, surface area, structure, moisture level, bacterial colonies, etc. It's not as easy to compare the two in scientific terms for this argument. Comparing them on moral ground is another story.

It's clear we're on opposing sides of this topic, but it's cool that we can talk/debate about it without attacking each other.

[ambientcopper]

That's right. I mean actually female circumcision has a MUCH better "hygeine rationale" than male, since females are much more likely to get that sort of infection. Yet we always view it with shock and horror, and male circumcision is not considered bad. I suggest that the only reason is because we are deadened to the true nature of male circumcision because we have been exposed to it for so long. In a culture where everyone went through a ritual of slowly chopping off their right big toe with a rock they sharpened themseleves, that would not be considered horrible or particularly bad-- because that's what they're used to. But if we happened on a culture that did this we would be horrified.

You may believe that traditional cultural unnecessary surgery is okay in all of its forms, or you may believe that it is a disgusting practice. But I think it is hypocritical to belong to a culture that employs such mutilation and then to shake our heads and our fingers at other cultures that employ similar practices.

[ambientcopper]

Personally I think that circumcision -male or female- is mutilation. If it's a religious choice, let the person make that choice on their own when they are old enough to actually decide if they want to belong to that religion. There is more and more evidence mounting in recent times that there is NO benefit whatsoever to circumcision, and there are some downsides (failed procedures, pain, infection, and decreased sexual pleasure later in life) to it. I don't believe that it is right or appropriate for parents to make permanent surgical changes to their kids for reasons that are not directly associated with the health or survival of the infant. Just because it is socially acceptable does not make it good or right

[thestoryofmikeb]

I find myself agreeing with much of what you said... Given that the procedure has no proven benefits, it strikes me as something that should be left up to the person who it affects.

As I research this some more, I see the argument that this is becoming a human rights issue. Cosmetic surgery performed without medical indication on a person who is unable to give consent.

True, the various forms of Female Genital Mutilation are not the same as the various forms of Circumcision (Male Gentital Mutilation)... But the THEORY behind them, the reasons some cultures practice them, are all incredibly similar.

I'm of the opinion that it is hypocritical of us to condemn one form, but not the other. I don't understand how we as a society can condone one, but condemn the other. If performing unneeded surgery on a female infant is wrong, then the same logic should apply to male infants.

Again, just my opinion, and my feelings on the issue. I appreciate all of you who are sharing your thoughts, keep 'em coming! :)

[costumenut]

Hey, just as a note, I don't think comparing female mutilation to male circumcision is equivalent. Female genital mutilation is like castrating a male. Those are the two equivalents. The female genitalia is something like 10,000 times more sensitive than the male, so it's annoying to have male circumcision compared to that. You could compare circumcision to slightly cutting a female's genitalia, or slicing off a teeny bit of skin down there, but that's it.

That being said, I'm a firm believer in the natural human body. So I would have to say I probably won't circumcise my children. Having only slept with one circumcised man, I can't compare the sex, but it does help to explain certain things.

And that's my two cents.

[thestoryofmikeb]

Thanks for posting, and I understand your point. I fully agree that the most extreme forms of Female Genital Mutilation (FGM) is like castrating a man. The anatomy is so different, its very hard to draw a direct comparison.

My attempt is simply to point out that it is the act of cutting away sensitive sexual tissue from the owner's body, without their consent.

Glad to hear you are a supporter of the natural human body. :)