Stirring up some controversy... Please reply with your thoughts.

[thestoryofmikeb]

Well, its Saturday night, and I'm relaxing at home for a bit.  (I.E. Sitting on my ass in bed, watching TV and playing online doing nothing at all.)

I'm feeling incredibly lazy and unmotivated, but I guess we all have those moments.

Nothing particularly huge right now in this moment to share, I just felt like writing something.  Maybe I'll surf the

Comments

[halia7]

Have you taken into account people's religious/spiritual thoughts on circumcision? It's not purely a medically driven procedure for many parents.

Also, studies and medical reports can often be biased (I know from personal experience with my surgery). I think in this case it may be more biased than usual because of people's very strong opinions on the subject. So, it's important to remember where you're getting your information from.

Personally, I still believe it's a hygiene issue. If the guy doesn't clean himself well enough, not only is he harming himself but his sexual partner. Women are much more prone to genital infections than men are, so even if the guy thinks he's clean, there's a good chance he's really not. Folds of skin can trap all kinds of bacteria that the eye can't see.

My two cents.

[thestoryofmikeb]

Agreed that medical reports can be biased... I was actually looking for some studies that presented strong medical evidence that circumcision is beneficial, and I'm having hard time finding anything that is remotely convincing for me on medical grounds. Also, looking at what the AAP says...

AMERICAN ACADEMY OF PEDIATRICS STATEMENT
"Existing scientific evidence demonstrates potential medical benefits of newborn male circumcision; however, these data are not sufficient to recommend routine neonatal circumcision. In circumstances in which there are potential benefits and risks, yet the procedure is not essential to the child's current well-being, parents should determine what is in the best interest of the child. To make an informed choice, parents of all male infants should be given accurate and unbiased information and be provided the opportunity to discuss this decision. "Good call that it is religious for many folks, and I completely agree that some people decide to do it for those reasons. I'm never able to tell anyone what do to

[halia7]

I think it's good to question things, I would never suggest to blindly follow something (especially this serious) without thinking about your own opinions first.

The female genital mutilation is something I'm not in favor of. That being said, female and male genitalia have very different types of skin tissue. They are of different texture, surface area, structure, moisture level, bacterial colonies, etc. It's not as easy to compare the two in scientific terms for this argument. Comparing them on moral ground is another story.

It's clear we're on opposing sides of this topic, but it's cool that we can talk/debate about it without attacking each other.

[ambientcopper]

That's right. I mean actually female circumcision has a MUCH better "hygeine rationale" than male, since females are much more likely to get that sort of infection. Yet we always view it with shock and horror, and male circumcision is not considered bad. I suggest that the only reason is because we are deadened to the true nature of male circumcision because we have been exposed to it for so long. In a culture where everyone went through a ritual of slowly chopping off their right big toe with a rock they sharpened themseleves, that would not be considered horrible or particularly bad-- because that's what they're used to. But if we happened on a culture that did this we would be horrified.

You may believe that traditional cultural unnecessary surgery is okay in all of its forms, or you may believe that it is a disgusting practice. But I think it is hypocritical to belong to a culture that employs such mutilation and then to shake our heads and our fingers at other cultures that employ similar practices.

[halia7]

I ask, why do you BELIEVE it's a hygeine issue? Have you had hygeine problems? Do you have something other than "I've always been told so" as support for it. I am all for people having fact based opinions, but simply asserting that you aren't going to change your mind doesn't seem rational to me.

I've been in a relationship with an uncircumcised male for over 4 years. There is no "special" procedure for washing, no extra attention that needs to be paid. And I am no more prone to infections now than I was before I met him. So, what support do you have that there really is more bacteria there? And is it really that big of an issue, given that females can easily prevent those sorts of infections through very simple practices (i.e. using the bathroom after sexual contact).

I'd be willing to wager (although I have no data on it) that there is more bacteria in your mouth than on a penis. Should oral sex be prevented?

[sneezymouse]

Sorry about that, didn't realize I wasn't logged in. The above is me.

[halia7]

I BELIEVE for the same reasons you believe in your argument...personal experience.

Look, nobody's right and nobody's wrong on this issue because it's way too subjective. I wasn't attacking your personal choice, so please don't attack mine. I don't know why you came on so strong with your comment to me. I didn't intend to offend anybody with my opinion, because that's all it is.

Also for the record, the human mouth is one of the cleanest surfaces on the human body as far as bacteria is concerned. I've participated in these kinds of experiments and on the test group we examined (in my class) there were 30% less bacterial colonies on the human lips/tongue/inner cheek than on the rest of the body, including the genitals. It's a common experiment for college level biology classes...I'm sure you could find similar statistics online.

[sneezymouse]

I apologize for seeming to come on strong. I am used to engaging in debates and simply stating arguments without having to make the statement "while I agree that you have the right to your own beliefs, these are mine" within those arguments.

We will have to agree to disagree on a number of issues, including:

Whether or not it is a subjective issue
Whether or not I was attacking your choice or your logic
Whether my beliefs come from personal experience or the data
The truth of the issue overall