The Corruption of the House System

[terri_testing]

A funny thing happened on the way to Harry’s sorting. The reputations of the houses got terminally messed with, and even those of us who eventually prided ourselves on objecting to the distortion never fingered either the culprit or the timing of the crime.

Comments

[lynn_waterfall]

(Which voids the suggestion someone made in a comment to one of my earlier posts, that Albus hid his house because he felt that as headmaster he needed to appear above house prejudice.)I think that was me, or I said something like that. You're certainly right that at one point, Dumbledore decided it was fine to be known as a Gryffindor. Still, people do change over time. He might have first wanted to seem unaffiliated, and then decided it was advantageous to have people think he was a Gryffindor

[oryx_leucoryx]

It is possible that there was a two stage process: confuse the issue of Dumbledore's House to appear neutral at first, and at a later point apply magic to completely stamp out the information and spread rumors about him possibly being a Gryffindor.

On the other hand, he became Chief Warlock of the Wizengamot, Supreme Mugwump of the International Confederation of Wizards, and the general of a vigilante army, not to mention the political power of being headmaster. (The fact that he didn't *also* become Minister is nothing; as you pointed out, being part of the Ministry would constrain him.)The problem is we do not know how much power the titles of Chief Warlock and supreme mugwump conferred upon him. While the wizengamot appoints (and possibly fires) the Minister, we see Fudge acting with little hindrance until it became perceived that he messed up big time. And I doubt Dumbledore acknowledged to himself how much power there was in the position of headmaster. So I can see him believing that by refusing to become Minister (from before

[lynn_waterfall]

True. Although, tongue only slightly in cheek, can we be sure how much power the Minister has? What can and can't the Minister do?

More importantly, though, Dumbledore has a lot of political influence, even though we don't know how much power a Chief Warlock and/or supreme mugwump have. I would think that that would require some active cultivation on Dumbledore's part.

Just being headmaster wouldn't do it, surely. Maybe defeating Grindelwald would be enough even without cultivating his political influence, but I dunno. The WW has a strong case of "what have you done for us lately" -- look at Harry's position in OotP, particularly compared to the beginning of PoA. The WW is already on the next Dark Lord; it isn't going to be enough that Dumbledore settled the last one half a century ago.

Power vs. perception

[terri_testing]

Actually, one of Swythyv's points is that it didn't matter how much power Dumbledore did or didn't have.

IN HIS OWN MIND, repeatedly declining the position of Minister of Magic proved that he'd learned his lesson that "I was not to be trusted with power." He told Harry so. "Power was my weakness and my temptation.... I was safer at Hogwarts."

Collecting every other high office floating around, whatever their actual duties, powers, and responsibilites, and expecting the actual Minister to do what one says, doesn't actually sound to me like someone who's renounced power. It sounds like someone who's in denial about renouncing power!

See, I turned down the post of Minister--aren't I humble? I've learned I'm not to be trusted; I'm not ambitious, no sir. Now, Fudge, this is what you do first--

[oryx_leucoryx]

In the 1990s we have Draco designating Hufflepuff as the least desirable House, despite being the son of the man who thought Dumbledore was the worst thing that happened to Hogwarts. Future Gryffindors think Ravenclaw is second best and Slytherin the absolute worst. We do not know the preferences of future Ravenclaws and Hufflepuffs. We do see all 3 Houses cheering for Gryffindor against Slytherin at Quidditch, but this may have been the reaction to Slytherin having the cup for so many years. Also, Luna's support for the Gryffindor Quidditch team against Slytherin and Hufflepuff may have been an expression of personal support of Harry rather than House preference but it may have also been the reciprocation of the attitude of Gryffindors. I doubt the view that Gryffindor was the best was shared by any of the other Houses regardless of rumors about Dumbledore or Voldemort. Hermione heard the description of the Houses and concluded that Gryffindor was the one she wanted to be in, it's not that Ernie and Hannah told her Gryffindor was the

[oryx_leucoryx]

I agree James' constant presence in Lily's life had a lot to do with it. I'm sure he was the one who taught Lily what magic was considered 'dark' and what not based on some silly criteria (what we do is just fun, what they do is evil because... er... well, because it is, don't you see?), as well as Dumbledore's (possibly deliberate) ineffectiveness in curbing the Marauders. But we can't ignore that we have examples of Blacks of different generations using the word 'mudblood' as a matter of course, including a Hogwarts headmaster. And Lily spent her schoolyears while some sort of anti-Muggle-born campaign was going on outside the school (even if it wasn't half as direct as we see in DH) - so I can see her being sensitive to this issue.

[mary_j_59]

Great essay! But, do you know, I half-wonder if you aren't trying to find some consistency in the books that isn't actually there?

For one thing, I have never really understood, any more than Jodel on the Red Hen website, why the "pureblood" house should also be the house of ambition? Nor do I understand why ambition is connected with water which connects to open emotionality.

It does seem likely that Dumbledore made the tension between Slytherin and Gryffindor worse than it already was. And I got very bugged that we never really heard what the quarrel between Slytherin and Gryffindor actually was - we're led to believe that it was Slytherin's pureblood agenda, but do we really know? I got even more bugged that the rift between Slytherin and Gryffindor was never healed in the final book. If anything, in spite of Severus's sacrifices, it seems to have gotten worse. And that, too, is largely Dumbledore's fault, I think, since he did so little to curb Tom when he had the chance

[oryx_leucoryx]

For one thing, I have never really understood, any more than Jodel on the Red Hen website, why the "pureblood" house should also be the house of ambition?

Not just the specific connection between those two views makes no sense but neither does the idea that a House more likely to have people with political aspirations would cling so visibly to ideas that are supposedly no longer in vogue in society at large. Or perhaps they aren't - but if everyone is making a show of distancing themselves from pureblood isolationism for political expediency then surely the ambitious ones who seek to reach positions of leadership would do so too?

overreading

[terri_testing]

Oh, certainly I am. But I'm having fun with it

Re: overreading

[oryx_leucoryx]

(And indeed, what was oh-so-fair Minerva doing, not docking house points for that egregious display of appalling manners?)

The excuse I have seen was that the twins' hissing (not booing) was only heard at the Gryffindor table. Just like we don't know what comments are made at other tables during Sorting nobody outside Gryffindor knew about the twins' behavior.

Re: overreading

[terri_testing]

Thank you!

Proving once more one shouldn't make comments without checking canon (at least not with nice canon-sharks like you and lynn circling....)

Yes, Fred and George did hiss, not boo, Mr. Braddock. Equally rude, but Minerva and the headmaster quite possibly might not have heard it over the ambient noise. So it would have fallen to the prefects to correct them, or their housemates. Who mostly, alas, would have agreed.

Thanks for the correction.

Re: overreading

[lynn_waterfall]

All the stuff about the Chamber of Secrets housing a monster to purge the castle was LEGEND that was embroidered later.

(grin) We don't actually know when the Chamber was built and the basilisk put there, too. If magic was used, the presence of the castle above wouldn't've been such an impediment. It could have been built a few generations after Salazaar's.