EGREGORE UPDATED

[tausirhasirim]

THE LINEAR EGREGORE VS THE REAL EMPOWERMENTS

(When I wrote this - some fifteen years ago - I was still trying to fight the good fight with OTO, Inc.  granted, it was a useless effort, as haters gonna hate, cultists gonna cling to cult.  I also realized that ecclesiastic lineages contribute to hierarchical theocratic dogmatic sectarianism, I have

Comments

[baal_kriah]

Fantastically informative post! It's irrelevant, but still I will point out that your letter of recognition as a Bishop-in-Amity is dated on my 34th birthday ;-) I was consecrated by HB in 1986, later "demoted" to Auxiliary Bishop when the office was linked to O.T.O. degree. Unlike some others, I took no offense at that; either one's got the Holy Spirit or one doesn't, it doesn't matter what one's official status in an organization is.

Amityville Horror

[tausirhasirim]

Of course, as to the latter, you're right. Doesn't mean that a little sensitvity training would hurt these guys

Re: Amityville Horror

[baal_kriah]

I wonder why he set up those rules about Bishops-in-Amity and then didn't follow them. Perhaps he forgot :-) I do remember that Bill H was pretty upset in 1986 when the E.G.C. was absorbed back into O.T.O., I don't believe I ever saw him at another mass after that.

Re: Amityville Horror

[tausirhasirim]

"I wonder why he set up those rules about Bishops-in-Amity and then didn't follow them. Perhaps he forgot :-)"

Quite possible for Bill. It is, however, in black and white and he can read.

"I do remember that Bill H was pretty upset in 1986 when the E.G.C. was absorbed back into O.T.O., I don't believe I ever saw him at another mass after that."

I think that was a mistake myself. Burying Grady deep seems to be one of Bill's compulsions, IMHO, of course.

[k_navit]

Good stuff. Pressures, including Old English study, are preventing me from posting at length in response right now, but I'd like to go on record as saying that I wouldn't hit a frog in the behind with that Wikipedia article, and I find the etymological claims of "egregore" as deriving from the Old English highly suspect. As L.S. Bernstein points out (http://www.crcsite.org/egregor.htm) in the most credible account of the eytmology and derivation of this word that I've seen yet, the Greek attestations are strongest, with some (stong, imo) case being made for the Hebrew

egregore by any other name

[tausirhasirim]

"the Greek attestations are strongest, with some (stong, imo) case being made for the Hebrew."

I agree...I was merely quoting a variety of sources.

"I would like to officially protest the false binary of "academic vs. magickian." I think some definition of terms is in order."

One can of course be an academic and a magician, even an academic magician, but one need not be an academic - especially as presently defined - to be a magician.

Yes, it is a false binary, and if I gave the impression *I* thought otherwise, I'm glad to clarify. My point was to speak to Bill's assertion that - since neither he nor I hold academic degrees - we are "the past". I suspect under a new paradigm, there will be plenty of academic degrees in what might be loosely defined as magick.

Re: egregore by any other name

[tausirhasirim]

ps - through the wonders of Orwellian editing, the site you specify is now among those referenced.

Re: egregore by any other name

[peristera]

Agree - Bernstein is the most credible that I know of. In a quick search I also find this SW article that cites Bernstein among a few other theories:

http://www.scarletwoman.org/scarletletter/v6n1/v6n1_egregors.html

Also agreed - I protest, and must admit some offense, to the implied separation of academic and magician. Both my academic career and my magickal path are firmly rooted in the utter belief - nay, the knowledge - that these two concepts are not only NOT mutually exclusive but that they are, on a very fundamental level, inseparable!

[tau_lucem_fero]

the future of Thelema belongs to academics

With such a prospect there will be no "future of Thelema" - not that I dislike academics (on the contrary I study to become one myself), but because "the Law is for all" and because quite a few academics thrives on reading books rather than doing fieldstudies (instead they study those who actually made the fieldwork :-) ).

Bill's academy

[tausirhasirim]

With such a prospect there will be no "future of Thelema" - not that I dislike academics (on the contrary I study to become one myself), but because "the Law is for all" and because quite a few academics thrives on reading books rather than doing fieldstudies (instead they study those who actually made the fieldwork

I think that Bill's conception of the academy and the reality are pretty far apart anyway. Actually, I think he's out of touch even with what the OTO is, and is not. He was a very odd choice, and the consequences have been manifesting as the years have gone by. Everyone should have access to the meeting at which his election was decided.

He is himself a fair scholar of Crowleyana. As an administrator he is bizarre, IMO.

Re: Bill's academy

[tau_lucem_fero]

I think the question here is not so much about OTO or various "lineages" or "orders" or "churches" and what not, but really what we - i.e. you, and I, and dozens or myriads of others - should do with the spiritual heritage from Therion ... Are we going to make this a study-club for historians? (interesting, but hardly the intention). Or are we going to make this a sociological playground? (interesting again, but hardly the intention). Or are we going to take things back to the basics, namely to pursue the G.'.W

Re: Bill's academy

[tau_lucem_fero]

ollowing the thoughts from Dr. Bertiaux, I view the magical universe as a dynamic enterprise. Magick is a dynamic art-form.

Exactly my point.

[anonymous]

boy, get a blow-job

BLOW JOB

[tausirhasirim]

I think there is a blow job already in progress, and you are giving it--no thanks. BTW, I think the Management is in the process of giving the eleventh degree to the entire membership. So, pick up the soap and sing.