EGREGORE UPDATED

[tausirhasirim]

THE LINEAR EGREGORE VS THE REAL EMPOWERMENTS

(When I wrote this - some fifteen years ago - I was still trying to fight the good fight with OTO, Inc.  granted, it was a useless effort, as haters gonna hate, cultists gonna cling to cult.  I also realized that ecclesiastic lineages contribute to hierarchical theocratic dogmatic sectarianism, I have

Comments

[k_navit]

Good stuff. Pressures, including Old English study, are preventing me from posting at length in response right now, but I'd like to go on record as saying that I wouldn't hit a frog in the behind with that Wikipedia article, and I find the etymological claims of "egregore" as deriving from the Old English highly suspect. As L.S. Bernstein points out (http://www.crcsite.org/egregor.htm) in the most credible account of the eytmology and derivation of this word that I've seen yet, the Greek attestations are strongest, with some (stong, imo) case being made for the Hebrew

egregore by any other name

[tausirhasirim]

"the Greek attestations are strongest, with some (stong, imo) case being made for the Hebrew."

I agree...I was merely quoting a variety of sources.

"I would like to officially protest the false binary of "academic vs. magickian." I think some definition of terms is in order."

One can of course be an academic and a magician, even an academic magician, but one need not be an academic - especially as presently defined - to be a magician.

Yes, it is a false binary, and if I gave the impression *I* thought otherwise, I'm glad to clarify. My point was to speak to Bill's assertion that - since neither he nor I hold academic degrees - we are "the past". I suspect under a new paradigm, there will be plenty of academic degrees in what might be loosely defined as magick.

Re: egregore by any other name

[tausirhasirim]

ps - through the wonders of Orwellian editing, the site you specify is now among those referenced.

Re: egregore by any other name

[peristera]

Agree - Bernstein is the most credible that I know of. In a quick search I also find this SW article that cites Bernstein among a few other theories:

http://www.scarletwoman.org/scarletletter/v6n1/v6n1_egregors.html

Also agreed - I protest, and must admit some offense, to the implied separation of academic and magician. Both my academic career and my magickal path are firmly rooted in the utter belief - nay, the knowledge - that these two concepts are not only NOT mutually exclusive but that they are, on a very fundamental level, inseparable!

Re: egregore by any other name

[tausirhasirim]

I have Orwelled your reference too. I would concede the point, but I already agreed. I was more concerned with the shock of Bill's comment and the desire to keep my entry anecdotal and casual, and perhaps that led to a misimpression. I do expect a paradigm shift, and I expect the concepts in academia to radically change. In certain fields - some branches of theoretical physics - it is already doing so. Bill was, I think, attacking himself through me. My work stands or falls on its merit. So does his.

Re: egregore by any other name

[peristera]

Duly noted - it did seem as though you conceded to this view.

Re: egregore by any other name

[tausirhasirim]

If Bill says it, I usually disagree - especially post 1990.

Re: egregore by any other name

[k_navit]

ref. sources -- I realize that. I was just pointing out that that particular one was highly unreliable

Re: egregore by any other name

[tausirhasirim]

No, I merely cited a few interesting web sites--no endorsement implied. If I had been aware of the ones you and karma mentioned, they wouldn't have had to be edited in.

I revere serious study. It can be linking to a formal academic setting, or to a totally independent one. The proof of the pudding is in the eating, as it were.

"ou know where I stand on this, but I'll state it overtly -- one needn't be making a living "in the ivory tower" nor have collected a string of degrees or academic honors in order to do rigorous, valuable research, both practical and theoretical. You are a good example of why this binary is false and why skills of research and inquiry are vital for anyone engaged in Work like this. After all, it helps to be able to tell when you're being sold a bill of goods."

100% agreement. When I was at the University of Arizona, I chose to spent *all* of my time in classes that coexisted (sanctioned) at the Free University of AZ, which got no credits, but was a learning experience for its own sake.