Merlin: 5.13 Commentary

[tanous]

I hadn’t quite intended on commenting on Julian Murphy’s eye-popping commentary on 5:13 because…well I thought it pretty much spoke eloquently for itself. But I reckoned of course without the formidable powers of denial and provocation within the Merlin fandom.  And the nagging powers of gatepromise :P So here I am again, dander up once more

Frankly, some of

Comments

[tanoshi_ame]

Oh no, I don't joke about OAFQ. There's nothing funny about it at all. Sorry you had to find out for yourself. And while I as always enjoy what you have to say, I'm also sorry about those angry cries you had to sit through that I think must have left you in enough disbelief to have written this. :P

I never came back to the forums, though I did see some astoundingly inane remarks on Tumblr. That they insisted Julian Murphy was joking/queer baiting/mocking M/A was ridiculous, I can't imagine anyone would save their last ever commentary of their own show for such triviality.

Because... um… ???? Merthur fans just… drove him over the edge??? Uh huh. With their …their… ? Nope I’ve run out of ideas as to why he’d do that actually. I welcome all believable suggestions.
How about he must have done it under the force of Arwen fans instead? The idea came because it was you who opened my eyes to their formidable aggression, by the way. :P

Pure? And this is the one remark of Julian's I’ve seen clung to like a lifebelt of 'platonic friendship

[tanous]

Sorreeee for the huge delay in replying Thien. Life stuff. :P

[xthursdaynextx]

I actually suspect he said that to make us grateful we got a reveal at all-

I suspect everything they've said all season is to make us grateful we got a reveal at all. I had zero hope for the finale and then they ambushed us with that well done reveal. I think because it was so much more than a lot us imagined we would get that we were so pleased with it. If we'd expected a reveal we'd probably have found something to be disappointed in. So calculated or not, it worked.

I don't think the show deserved the NTA, tbh. I did vote for it, but for me it was a weak season with a few good episodes and weird choices, while Downton Abbey had a much stronger season than their previous one. Colin absolutely deserved an award for his five years of work on the show, though, especially the finale.

[tanous]

I think you may be right about managed expectations. I know that after the rest of the season and knowing they were going to do Camlann and kill Arthur I couldnt imagine anything other than a horrible last episode. Yet somehow out of nowhere they found sensitivity and some understanding of what the core fans wanted which was essentially out of the blue given the blundering rubbish they were churning out before that

[tanoshi_ame]

Oh, I've been meaning to watch Downton, seeing as there are praises after praises for it. Can you tell me a bit about how you feel towards it? What's the most compelling thing about the show in your opinion?

[tanous]

Downton...oooh. Well Id describe it as pretty conservative viewing. Its professionally written and storylined (unlike the feeling that Merlin was written on the back of an envelope on the train to begin filming ) but I personally find it quite bland. I like watching it and I can appreciate how cleverly its aimed at its audience but for me its easy viewing. I cant imagine ever getting emotionally involved in it, though I know many have. The most compelling thing...hmmm. A toughie. I used to like the Matthew/Mary push/pull (you'll see what I mean) until it resolved but otherwise.... no one thing - I think its a kind of *atmosphere* it has to it, a comfort thing, like so much British period drama

[darlulu]

It was a new thing for Arwen fans though and I do understand the urge to pretend it didn't happen. But while it may be a novel feeling to have to accept it, its pretty pointless claiming something is canon when it just …isnt? That’s kind of what AU fanfic is forMy thoughts exactly. I saw some of that Once and Future Queen nonsense, too, and to be honest, if I'd shipped Arwen and been a big Gwen fan, I'd probably write the hell out of all kinds of AU fics to fix how the A/G was written in S5 and give her some big ~destiny, too. (And let's be honest, 99% of all reincarnation fic that's ever been written in fandom had all the other characters reborn, too, so it's not like this inclination is new or anything). But I'd acknowledge that I was diverging from canon

[marvelpku]

Merlin would return and serve Gwen???
Some fans are really Mary Sue.

Merlin said in the episode by himself: "Camelot is nothing with you, Arthur". "There will no one like you". "I have magic and I use it only for you, Arthur". Let's be honest, Merlin is Arthur's and other things just doesn't matter to him.

[darlulu]

I've seen the sentiment even from non-Gwen fans, and the thinking is that Merlin would want to protect and preserve Arthur's legacy. That he'd see Camelot and Gwen as an extension of Arthur, and feel it his duty to serve them to honor his memory.

But as you said, Merlin makes it pretty clear (repeatedly) in 513 that he doesn't look at it quite that way. They made a point of having Merlin distinguish between Arthur and Camelot...they weren't interchangeable to him. And I didn't get the impression Merlin had any allegiance to Gwen whatsoever. In some of the earlier seasons, Merlin seemed more big picture oriented, but in S5 it was like they stripped away every other priority until just Arthur remained.

[tanous]

You said it better! ' Just Arthur remained' in S5 - it was blatant and never more so than in 5.05. I still wonder why they did that but I suppose it did make the love story all the more epic?

[issy5209]

"No reveal? Having said all of that though I share the general amazement that he claimed the producers actually considered no magic reveal at all (eh????) and only went for it so because they realized that fans would feel cheated if it didn’t happen. Well... full points for insight Julian - I mean the fans didn’t mention wanting it much at all, did they? It’d have been easy to think no one was very bothered. What a load of bollocks! I actually suspect he said that to make us grateful we got a reveal at all- given 5.13 was all about it. I was also left a bit WTF??? by the claim that the producers couldn’t think of another way the show could have ended than Arthurs death (also) without ‘cheating’ the fans. Which if true, suggests they urgently need to find new careers

[tanous]

I agree very much that they could have done so many different things with the show instead of a beginning and an end with no middle. But they wanted the melodrama of Camlann I suppose - go out with a bang. Or as the cast insist on calling it, 'a high' :P

[issy5209]

Yes, we may have got a discussion about go-karting or whatever again LOL!!
Well, I think the old man at the end was his disguise as well (and it always is a disguise in Malory etc) but I think some other people have taken different views, it would have been nice to hear that yes, that is the intended way to think, because sometimes I'm not sure if what I think is what is intended!

I'm not sure the writers or producers gave much though to anything they've done, its a case of we have plot a, to get to plot b, and put in plot device here and here, but I do agree that they wanted the melodrama of Camlann, and not any other battle they could have had

Part 1

[gatepromise]

Just so, and thank heaven for my nagging powers. : P

First, the funniest. The Once and Future Queen: OK I’ve been quietly sniggering to myself since arien_elensar and tanoshi_ame in the 5.13 thread said the suggestions might be out there …those desperate references to our old mate Mary Sue as ‘the Once and Future Queen’.

Yeah, really. Honestly tho...how can they (the Arwen stans) put forth anything else without changing their entire world view? I saw something on tumblr the other day that said "We can all rest easy knowing that when Arthur is reincarnated, he and Gwen will find each other because they are soul mates and she is the Once and Future Queen to his King." I mean...you have to give them points for consistancy I guess even as you might shake your head at their blindness and ability to perform mental gymnastics. I guess on some level I do understand their desperation, too--who wants to accept that their ship isn't the main focus of a show, because after all, it was their focus, the Arwen fans' focus. ("Is there a kiss

Re: Part 1

[tanoshi_ame]

I've also noticed that most fanfic before the finale had the entire cast reunited...usually with Gwen as Merlin's best bud, Morgana and Arthur brother and sister (and usually close, in an antagonistic manner) and all the knights as Arthur's footie mates....
I admit I'm kinda tired of the trope, not to mention it stopped feeling appropriate since S4 as Gwen wasn't Merlin's best bud anymore and Morgana, well, only the antagonistic part was still right. Now I'm lapping up any and all future!canons that reincarnate the rest outside M/A but only make them no more than a passing presence in M and A's life.

Re: Part 1

[tanous]

ARE there fics like that? All the ones I see have the full complement present and correct coming back over and over again with Merlin fixating on them. I understand there are also fics insisting Merlin dies over and over too and that was just the end of one of his lives at the end. Though JM pretty much put an end to that one with his mock awed reaction to Merlin in modern times shot implying he managed it through immortality as hinted heavily in the Crystal Cave. Sometimes I really wish I could just ignore canon and decide what i want to believe is what they REALLY meant. :P

Re: Part 1

[tanoshi_ame]

Funnily enough, the only one I know was written in 2011 so its canon era went AU a bit. The bulk of it is set in World War II so it didn't matter. It's actually my new favourite besides Rheged. Has everything but with clever twists. Men for All Seasons by new_kate. Have you read it?

http://archiveofourown.org/works/246860