Are Public Unions Necessary?

[a_new_machine]

Wisconsin is raising hell in its attempts to balance a budget that's heavily weighed down by union-bargained benefits for public employees. Of course, they're taking the "nuke it from orbit" approach and removing collective bargaining rights from public employees

Comments

[fizzyland]

Here in Los Angeles we see all kinds of government cutbacks but the unified LA school district remains top-heavy with administration and systems where employment is always based on seniority and not competence seem like bad ideas to me.

[notmrgarrison]

In the 90's the DC school system spent more per student than any other school system in the country, yet the schools sucked. The money was going to the administration.

[fizzyland]

As someone who manages a retail business here, I can also say that the city is retarded when it comes to anti-business moves they make that deprive the city/county of income.

[jlc20thmaine]

What are dems afraid of? Why won't the party of "no" allow this bill to come to a vote?

[meus_ovatio]

No public unions aren't necessary, neither are corporations or anything else, and no they have no greater obligation to the wider market than any given organization operating in the economy. I detest the double-standard people have about unions.

[telemann]

Why do you think there is such a double standard?

[meus_ovatio]

Because executives get to do whatever they want, and workers had best do what we tell them.

[telemann]

I worked at a private shipyard--in a right to work state (i.e. union participation was voluntary), so you can guess the union was pretty weak. Dues per week were about five dollars. The best paid welders (after 20 years) were making about 14 an hour (nuclear plant qualified for the subs, etc). Meanwhile-- the Ford truck plant across the river, I knew a friend making 25.00 an hour bolting bumpers on trucks, and all kind of perks. UPS drivers made more. Even temp workers at the Busch brewery in Williamsburg made more. But whenever the subject of the weak union at the yard came up, people would raise the "Why should I pay dues for benefits that I'm already getting? Why do they want my money? Screw that!" And as usual, there were comments about minorities in the union (they wanted cushy union jobs to get out of doing hard work!). The reasoning seemed so counter productive to me.

[nevermind6794]

I agree that many (most?) public sector jobs are in safe and fair working conditions. In that sense, they are not really necessary.

But they provide protection against unfair treatment that other people here have listed. Management screwing them on pay, getting fired for unfair reasons, working ridiculous hours without pay. Sometimes they take that defense too far, such as defending workers who are clearly incompetent, but in general they do still have a use.

And obviously, they should have the freedom of association and all that. I don't think very highly of compulsory membership or their donations to politicians who are supposed to negotiate with them later, but that's too much to get into for now. I'd also like to read up more on their history; why were they originally necessary?

[nevermind6794]

Er, why were public employee unions originally necessary. I think we all know why labor unions in general were necessary.

[a_new_machine]

Ah. That's a good question. I found the original text allowing unions in government. To quote:
"WHEREAS participation of employees in the formulation and implementation of personnel policies affecting them contributes to effective conduct of public business; and

WHEREAS the efficient administration of the Government and the well-being of employees require that orderly and constructive relationships be maintained between employee organizations and management officials; and

WHEREAS subject to law and the paramount requirements of the public service, employee-management relations within the Federal service should be improved by providing employees an opportunity for greater participation in the formulation and implementation of policies and procedures affecting the conditions of their employment; and

WHEREAS effective employee-management cooperation in the public service requires a clear statement of the respective rights and obligations of employee organizations and agency management:"

[nevermind6794]

Good find, but I'm curious about the discussion prior to that legislation. A quick Google search turned up surprisingly little; I'm going to search more later.

[dwer]

you shouldn't be asking why they have it so much better than you.

you should be asking why don't you have it so good.

Are public unions necessary? Yes.

[a_new_machine]

Because the economy could not support the demands of unionized lawyers.

[dwer]

heh.