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a_new_machine November 28 2010, 18:02:58 UTC
Unless they spend several decades moving the bishop around, hiding his activities while possessing full knowledge of them, and systemically failing to address the broader problem, then no, this will be nothing like the Catholic church scandal.

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htpcl November 29 2010, 19:56:04 UTC
I think it is. The logic here is that a group of people could call their leader whatever they want, which still doesn't make him what they want it to mean. Alternately, a group of people might be calling themselves whatever they want, which still doesn't necessarily make them automatically what they claim to be.

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dv8nation November 29 2010, 20:17:35 UTC
The World Series is just a name. The Pope IS the leader of the Catholic Church. Catholics are members of the RCC and thus the Pope is leader of the Catholics.

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htpcl November 29 2010, 22:10:07 UTC
Point taken. Catholics, then it is.

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anosognosia November 28 2010, 20:06:00 UTC
"I wonder why the USA, with a single non-Protestant President in the entirety of its history might possibly ignore the abuses of Protestantism in favor of those "other" Catholics."


... )

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underlankers November 28 2010, 20:58:01 UTC
So what do you think the answer is?

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anosognosia November 28 2010, 21:53:03 UTC
That the cultural concern here isn't principally about sexual abuse anyway, but rather principally an expression of antipapism.

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dv8nation November 28 2010, 22:00:32 UTC
No, I think the real problem here is people abusing kids. Yeah, anti-Catholic thought is a problem, but not at the crux of this issue.

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anosognosia November 28 2010, 22:01:42 UTC
If it were, we would expect people's complaints to have some substantial relation to the phenomenon of sexual abuse, which they don't. If they didn't simply because people were misinformed about that phenomenon, then we would expect people to correct their objections when they become informed, which they don't. Therefore, etc.

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a_new_machine November 28 2010, 22:13:29 UTC
The Catholic hierarchy shuffled known offenders around to avoid looking bad, rendering themselves complicit in the continued abuse that they knew about and did nothing to prevent. This is a fact. Yeah, they got a lot of press for it, but they deserved it. The fact that other organizations are getting less press for their terrible crimes says that we're being too soft on them, not that we were too hard on the RCC.

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underlankers November 28 2010, 22:15:29 UTC
That's my point-that we're too soft on them because of a double-standard that associates US identity with "Nebulous Protestant" and where anti-Catholic bigotry was a part of the older identity and the only thing that may force the change is more Mexicans moving in.

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a_new_machine November 28 2010, 22:16:42 UTC
OK, that works for me. I thought that the issue was that Catholics were getting treated too poorly for their involvement, which the person to whom I was replying seemed to thing was the case. IMO they deserve worse than they got, but statutes of limitations are what they are...

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underlankers November 28 2010, 22:17:51 UTC
Well, the person you're talking to is Catholic. I'm a Baptist who finds the double-standard quite interesting as logically there's no difference between a Catholic or Baptist pedo in terms of what the actual crime involves. Rape is rape.

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a_new_machine November 28 2010, 22:20:01 UTC
Agreed there. I just get frustrated at Catholic defenders who say that what they got hit with was unfair. I heard it a lot from parents and teachers at school. What's unfair is paying a stipend for a confessed sex offender who raped everything from little boys to 9-month-old infants and allowing him to roam Ireland, and even live with children, without warning anyone.

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underlankers November 28 2010, 22:23:56 UTC
Oh, yes, that is entirely inexcusable. It would be heavily ironic if any of these men were the Catholic version of Hellfire and Brimstone preachers in my denomination but find themselves going to the Other Side in the afterlife for this kind of hypocrisy. Nothing done by the Church hierarchy here is excusable, my only quibble is that there's a slight issue with singling one out instead of punishing it equally for all denominations.

BTW, the bolding's not to be condescending, it's to make my view on this clear as far as this discussion now and in the past. In my opinion nothing's worse than the parties that seek to abrogate right and wrong for everyone else shamelessly hiding and aiding and abetting crimes.

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a_new_machine November 28 2010, 22:24:40 UTC
Yep, we agree. /thread?

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