The Odessa fire

[luzribeiro]

Anyone surprised that there isn't much news of this, and the little that's reported at all, mostly fails to mention the people surrounded and burned alive were pro-Russians? -->

The other day, dozens of pro-Russian protesters retreated to a Trade Union building from a mob of armed right-wing extremists, and as the latter surrounded the building

Comments

[brother_dour]

I have a related question for OP: do you believe the allegations made by Ukraine officials accusing Russia of arming / equipping the pro-Russian protesters?

[luzribeiro]

After Putin openly admitted that the "unidentified" militants in Crimea were actual Russian troops? Hell yeah.

And the allegations are not that Putin is arming the pro-Russia protesters. The allegations are that Putin is arming the pro-Russian activists militants in East Ukraine. There are people protesting on the streets of East Ukrainian cities who are not being armed and have no intention to resort to violence. And then there are guys in military equipment without any signs on them and with black masks on their faces - now there's a distinction that shouldn't be overlooked, the same way we wouldn't like to lump genuine Ukrainian pro-democracy protesters along with those far-right fascizoid elements that instigated this Odessa incident.

It's this lack of sense of nuance that tends to perpetuate the poisoned discourse at both sides of the geopolitical divide, and further the downward spiral.

[mikeyxw]

In the interest of nuance and not lumping different groups together, I'd also point out that the US is supporting the new Ukrainian government, not "the pro-Kiev mob" as you stated in your OP. These are two very different groups and it's not honest to describe support for one as support for both.

[luzribeiro]

Then how come no one in the US, be it a government official or a politician in more general, has taken a firm stance against this sort of violence and condemned the extremist elements among the pro-Kiev movement? I mean, they were quickly all over the media making firm statements against the annexation of Crimea and Putin's escalation in East Ukraine. But when extremist elements who happen to be on their side do something atrocious... three days (actually four as of now) of silence? Hell, it took a dig through the pages of newspapers to even learn something like this happened, and even then it occupied a total of two paragraphs on someone's "in depth" analysis of Ukraine.

Do you not notice the disproportionate coverage of the two sides here?

[dziga123]

No, Odessa fire wasn't underreported. Just look at coverage of compatible tragedies, for example kidnapping of two hundred Nigerian schoolgirls. This tragedy got the same level of coverage. And I don't think, and correct me if I am wrong, Obama gave any statements about this kidnapping, either.
And though I don't think that those poor souls died on direct order from Putin, or his henchmen, he is definitely to blame for fueling civil war in Ukraine.

[luzribeiro]

Just look at coverage of compatible tragedies, for example kidnapping of two hundred Nigerian schoolgirls. This tragedy got the same level of coverage

Actually the kidnapping is being discussed on CNN Worldwide as I speak - and for the third time this morning alone; watched it another two times yesterday, one was a nearly half-hour report on the African Voices program. And it totally should, because that's another enormous atrocity.

Still not a word about Odessa, though. Not from major networks, and not from any politicians in Washington.

I don't think, and correct me if I am wrong, Obama gave any statements about this kidnapping, either

Too bad for him, then. I hear there's pressure mounting on him from the grassroots to actually do something more than just "sharing intelligence" with the Nigerian authorities:

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/05/05/politics/us-nigeria-boko-haram/

"Officials told CNN the Obama administration is sharing

[allhatnocattle]

RT has been covering it pretty thoroughly

[luzribeiro]

You do know what RT is, right?

[mikeyxw]

It doesn't seem to be underreported, but the reporting seems to be a bit slow. I just took a look and both BBC and CNN online are giving this story about as much play as the conflicts in Slovyansk, which seems about right. BBS has four articles about the conflict in Odessa, which more or less echo the points you made in your OP, CNN has a section in their story about Ukraine. I don't blame them for being deliberate, there are plenty of folks who are actively trying to misinform the world about what's happening and there is a real danger that false reports can escalate the problem. For this reason, it also seems like a good idea for Mr. Obama to let actions speak instead of words so we can avoid drawing bright red lines in a place that doesn't need any more of them.

[mikeyxw]

Sorry, BBC, not BBS.

[the_rukh]

Although all those burning tires have to have some impact on their stock!

[luzribeiro]

Again, Obama's administration didn't seem so prudently cautious in their reactions to the events in Crimea. They had already made up their mind long before it became 100% clear who was who and what was happening there.

Ps. Would BBS stand for Big BullShit, then? :))

[luvdovz]

As someone who has held deep interest in Ukraine long before most people around here probably even heard such a place exists somewhere on the map, I've been "consuming" the news about the conflict there from a variety of international sources on a regular basis. While the Odessa fire is being occasionally mentioned, it's true that it's nowhere near the in-depth coverage the other part of the Ukraine story tends to get - and for a reason. There's bias on both sides, and that includes the media which are now but an extension of the respective political establishments.

On the other hand, Putin's mouthpiece on the international media scene, RT seems to be doing a tremendous job countering everybody else's anti-Russia bias with a condensated version of pro-Russia bias of their own. Similarly to the way FOX is striving to "restore balance to the Force" by countering what they perceive as the "lamestream media" liberal bias with a conservative bias of their own that matches the weight of the opposite bias combinedIn any case, it's

[ivankon]

> There's bias on both sides, and that includes the media

Exactly.

Also there is very symmetric situation:
- center-western protesters, non-legitimate authorities, West support
- south-eastern protesters, non-legitimate authorities, East support

[mikeyxw]

Well, the US has yet to send in troops with their insignias removed and annex a chunk of land after signing a treaty that promised we'd respect Ukraine's territorial integrity. Also, Russian media has been playing fake stories about neo-Nazis terrorizing Russian speaking Ukrainians in order to justify an invasion rather than just underplaying stories about Pro-Their-Side mob violence. But other than the huge differences in scope, scale, and motive, there's certainly some symmetry to the situation.

[ivankon]

> Well, the US has yet to send in troops with their insignias removed and annex a chunk of land...

Troops was not need, pay to traitors was enough. Chunk of USSR was teared apart and Yushekno puppet set to throne.

> Also, Russian media has been playing fake stories about neo-Nazis terrorizing Russian speaking Ukrainians

Media of opposite side also use fake stories. And yes, there are real neo-Nazis terrorizing Russian speaking Ukrainians.

[mahnmut]

Ah, Ukraine. Yet another one of those Damned If You Do, Damned If You Don't situations from a Western perspective, isn't it?

The fact that Turchynov has just sacked the Odessa regional governor and appointed yet another well-known oligarch who shares his ultra-nationalist views, isn't helping much either, is it. Quite a nice freedom-fighting gang they've been forming up there in Kiev: Tymoshenko the Gas Queen, a bunch of violent neo-fascist right-wingers, plus a good amount of oligarchs who'd rather have you disappear in mysterious circumstances than tell you how they earned their first million.