Video evidence

[enders_shadow]

I recently got into a dispute with a co-worker over the concept of police wearing cameras

Comments

[yes_justice]

I can't think of any single proposal that might help curb police brutality as much as cops wearing cameras. Can you?

Take away the weapons. Oh you mean feasible.

[enders_shadow]

hahahaha, oh man, I bet this womans head would explode if you tried to explain that POV to her....

But yea, remotely feasible ideas are better than pie in the sky. Cause, ya know, idealistically, we could just stop having shitty people work in law-enforcement, but people is people, and sadly, we are just some poorly evolved primates.

[yes_justice]

When the Black Panther Party, the real one, marched into the capital to protest the racist "Mulford" act, which that gun control advocate Ronald Reagan signed, the generally accepted idea is that you could make black people harmless by disarming them. I don't see why the logic changes for the police.

[enders_shadow]

Well....the case in question didn't use any weapons. So police could still hold ya down and punch ya, even if they don't have any firearms.

[jerseycajun]

I fully support the police wearing cameras, and for more of the public to do the same

[enders_shadow]

If the man who was being punched, while prone on the ground, actually needed to be punched, for the safety of the officers or some shit, then there should be video evidence showing that.

And yes, the guy yelling at the cops is acting very stupid. But assume for a moment that the individual who was getting punched, while prone, did not deserve it. That the individual who was getting punched wasn't resisting or being violent. Assume you know that person well; they are close to you; now assume you see that person getting punched by the very people who you are supposed to contact in case someone comes up and punches you without reason!

That is bound to make you a little bit upset, isn't it?

That said, yes, yelling at cops isn't gonna help them treat your friend fairly.
But fuck me

If I am present and witness police brutality, I'm gonna wanna fucking scream and shout too.

[jerseycajun]

Even if the cops are showing a lack of restraint, and looking at it again, now I see the punches more clearly, it's entirely possible that the cops were acting with a lack of restraint, there is still one more pressing reason to restrain one's self

[enders_shadow]

i agree, we should hold ourselves to a high bar

but righteous indignation is righteous

then again, there's a time and place for everything....
as for:

"If we can't restrain our emotions enough to stop us from behaving badly ourselves, then we can't expect it of the officers"

I entirely disagree! The State (well, city, state or federal) govt has given officers a special position in society. We can, and should, hold them to a higher standard of expectations!

[htpcl]

In my shithole of a country, video evidence is not officially considered proof. Even if a security camera records you slaughtering someone, your face is seen, as well as the whole act, the court will pretend they didn't see it. Unless the camera has been officially requested by police and/or the security services, with all the due red tape involved. Which of course is ridiculous, since such "official footage cameras" can only be obtained by said institutions whenever some investigation is being done. Ordinary shop-keepers don't have "official cameras", they just have, well... CAMERAS. And those aren't considered "proof".

Yeah. We're fucked up like that.

[enders_shadow]

Well....I mean, proof is perhaps the wrong word. It's evidence. I mean, the first Rodney King trial ended with all four police officers being found not-guilty, and we all know there was camera evidence on that one. (In the second Rodney King trial, the two senior officers were found guilty, while the two junior officers were found not guilty. Those two junior officers are still working in law-enforcement and are both of high-rank....it was one of the things that drove Chris Dorner mad)

So cameras are not proof but they are evidence.

Or are you saying they have no value as evidence over there? Does the judge instruct the jury to disregard the video footage? (do y'all have a jury system over there? i assume so, but i realize i am merely assuming, I know nothing of your legal system, sorry)

[htpcl]

> Or are you saying they have no value as evidence over there?

How the hell did you come up with such a conclusion? I'm just sharing how shitty our judicial system is. Yes we do have a jury system but our law system is not based on precedent, instead it's based on certain rules. And there's this shitty rule saying that no matter how clear the video footage/proof/evidence (call it whatever you want), it's worthless. For some reason that I don't understand.

[enders_shadow]

"there's this shitty rule saying that no matter how clear the video footage/proof/evidence (call it whatever you want), it's worthles"

uhhh.that's how I reached that conclusion?

I am so confused....

[oportet]

Cameras on every cop would have cost a lot...twenty years ago. There are five dollar webcams in the checkout line now. I know that doesn't translate exactly to the costs of a camera on a badge - but the money it would save in court costs and potential lawsuits would make up for it x 1000.

[policraticus]

It's not just the cameras, though. It is the whole system, hardware and software and the officers who have to administer and monitor it. Plus the lawyers. Not for nothing, the cost of a camera that would do the kind of job we are hypothesizing wouldn't be an over the counter thing. The cost would be substantial. Plus it is the government so.... $$$$.

Just saying.

[enders_shadow]

As pointed out elsewhere, any major city that used this technology (and assuming the trend from cities that have already begun doing this in trial runs) would save large sums of money by not having to pay out as many civil lawsuits for excessive force type claims. And to be fair to the honest cops that are falsely accused, it also saves on money on succesfully defending cops from such civil claims!

Do you happen to know how much major city police forces pay out in settlements each year?

[policraticus]

I think the money argument is weak in general, on both sides. Opposition to this kind of surveillance should be a matter of principle.

[a_new_machine]

Cameras with automatic cloud backup to a copy stored by a third party. Sorry, I've had dash cams "lost" entirely too frequently for it to be mere chance.