Columbus' true face

[airiefairie]

History is written by the winners - this is a well known principle. For example, October 11 was Columbus Day. Ever since the 18th century, Columbus' arrival on American soil in 1492 is being celebrated in the United States, all throughout Central America, the Caribbean, Spain, Argentina, Uruguay etc. But what is actually being celebrated? And if

Comments

[ddstory]

Most of us Nordskis know the story of Leifur anyway, so no sweat.

[peristaltor]

Yeah, poor Leif got his ass handed to him back in Vineland. Good thing Greenland was still warm back then.

[ddstory]

That's not the point. The point is, he was the first European to reach America. And that's well known in Europe today, so I couldn't care less exactly how ignorant about it the American public really is.

[peristaltor]

I know. There's a statue of him here in town overlooking our largest marina. Big Norge community near the water.

I was just funnin' with the fact that he was driven out of Vineland, which leads to the future of the Greenland Norse after the weather turned.

You're right, though. I wonder if we ignorant 'Mericans celebrate CC because he ran the first successful "discovery." It's kind of a "in your FACE, injuns!" attitude.

[airiefairie]

Yes, the notion that everyone was the same at the time and had no other choice but to be someone that we nowadays would condemn "because the times were such", is false. There are some absolute moral concepts that transcend any epochs and are valid from a human, philosophical, and especially religious point of view. If "Do not kill" is one of the Commandments, then the only way to bypass it is to somehow declare these people sub-human... which could presumably serve as some kind of excuse for treating them like livestock. But even at the time there were people from within Columbus' own circle who were not OK with all that.

Columbus is enormously important. But telling the full story is essential for understanding what exactly he is important for. Context does matter.

[peristaltor]

There are some absolute moral concepts that transcend any epochs and are valid from a human, philosophical, and especially religious point of view.

I would question that. In the race for resources, the various colonial powers often competed on how brutal they could be. I recall a South Seas power struggle between the English and (IIRC) Portugeuse (sp?). Each were vying for the favors of two brother warlords for extraction rights.

The Dutch came along, killed both brothers outright, claimed the entire area for themselves, and brought enough firepower to repel both the other colonial ships.

Lesson: to the most inhumane went the spoils.

[airiefairie]

That in no way addresses the issue of morality. It addresses the fact that brutal force gives advantage, i.e. you are talking of practicality.

[rimpala]

I heard he was bad news for the indigenous population, but never knew the extent of it. As such I never really celebrate Columbus Day anyways, just never really saw what needed celebrating. I don't even think my collage gets a day off from it anymore. It's a bank holiday.

[rimpala]

Also I have to wonder, was Columbus arrested for atrocities against the indigenous population or atrocities against the Spaniards there?

[airiefairie]

Atrocities against the indigenous population. But the bottom line is that he apparently had some powerful rivals, and they wanted to exploit the situation to eliminate him. However he was still too profitable for the crown at the time, so he was released.

[rimpala]

Ah, nice that they speak out against him then. I was afraid the sentiment was that it was fine to abuse the natives but not the Spaniards, or something like that.

[peristaltor]

You might like the Orson Scott Card book Pastwatch: The Redemption of Christopher Columbus. A nice ripping time travel yarn with a few good twists.

[dwer]

no one should ever like Orson Scott Card.

[dv8nation]

The guy being an asshole in real life doesn't make it wrong to enjoy his books. Hell, by that thinking it should be wrong to like Lovecraft, Robert E. Howard and a thousand other great authors who held views that don't synch well with modern values.

And that's bullshit.

[dwer]

I won't fund his paranoid homophobic assholeness.

[kylinrouge]

Next you'll be telling me about Thanksgiving and how the Pilgrims weren't on the up and up.

[peristaltor]

Judging by the outfits, I doubt many were on the down-low.

[telemann]

Heh, if you mean the Pilgrims, they got their groove thang on quite a bit.

Source.

According to some studies, up to 1 in 3 Puritan women were pregnant when they were married. The odds of becoming pregnant from one act of intercourse are a lot lower than that, so that's a lot of deviant behavior for a group that cheerfully crushed people to death for looking "witchy."

[peristaltor]

The "down-low" refers to hidden homosexual behavior in certain communities. I was jesting at the lack of, er, design and fashion sense they seemed to exhibit.