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soliloquy76 July 11 2011, 18:17:19 UTC
Where the hell has this guy been for the last year? This is the guy I voted for.

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jonathankorman July 11 2011, 18:26:03 UTC
The guy I voted for would have said that breaking Social Security was not up for discussion. But at least this guy does seem to know how to do this politics thing, which is a refreshing change.

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a_new_machine July 11 2011, 18:30:32 UTC
So the guy you voted for would rather destroy the entire economy than have a negative impact on SS?

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jonathankorman July 11 2011, 18:56:09 UTC
I think that's a false choice.

Would the Republicans either shut down the government over changing Social Security? Would they pass a major erosion of Social Security without Democratic Party co-sponsors? I don't believe it; they'd get crushed in the next election.

So the only way that SS gets on the table for real is if Democrats put it there, which is both a political loser and bad policy for Democrats.

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rick_day July 11 2011, 18:22:59 UTC
ATTA BOY, LUTHER!

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telemann July 11 2011, 19:03:43 UTC
Ha, is that a South Pacific reference, or Superman: The Movie reference?

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rick_day July 11 2011, 22:31:35 UTC
wha...what??

Dude...that is THE Classic line from Don Knott's "The Ghost and Mr. Chicken"

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telemann July 11 2011, 22:32:47 UTC
LOL, thanks (feels all sorts of movie stupid now ;)

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rasilio July 11 2011, 18:31:37 UTC
4 trillion in cuts huh?

Color me shocked if any of those cuts ever results in an actual reduction in expenditures because in the language of Washington "4 trillion in cuts" is a doublespeak way of saying "We're going to cut the projected growth in spending by $400 Billion a year and no program will ever see a year over year decrease in revenue"

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eracerhead July 11 2011, 18:38:59 UTC
I already know at least a dozen people who have lost their job in the past 3 weeks because of expected budget cuts.

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rasilio July 11 2011, 18:49:49 UTC
Again, "expected budget cuts" <> actual reduction in funds. It means that they will not have as much money as they thought they were going to have and therefore not do something which they were planning to do. Yes this is a cut in the sense that they will have less money than they otherwise would have, but unless their actual budget for year 2 = X - Y where Y is a positive number their budget wasn't really cut, it just didn't grow as fast as they had planned for.

There is a very important difference, especially since the Federal budget has been growing faster than Inflation + population growth for a while now.

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eracerhead July 11 2011, 19:48:11 UTC
Well sorry to let you know, but these people have had jobs for years, so the cuts are real and will add to unemployment.

I know this because they come to me, but we have no jobs for them either. So either agencies are cutting back or remaining steady.

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a_new_machine July 11 2011, 18:33:39 UTC
I'm glad that he's acting like the responsible adult. I doubt this will help him in the polls, though. He's taking a very, very hard stand (if he sticks to it), but it's not a popular one. Both sides can now blame the President for not giving them enough time when/if this falls apart, or for rushing the process, saying that if they'd had more time they could've negotiated [x thing they dislike] out of the bill.

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soliloquy76 July 11 2011, 18:37:59 UTC
I think he's calling the Republicans on their bluff. Republicans talk about cutting social programs, but they don't really mean it. It's political suicide. In a world where politicians only care about poll numbers, this kind of thing really resonates with me (and many others, I'm sure).

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a_new_machine July 11 2011, 18:41:41 UTC
Eh, I don't know. I think the Tea Party wing is stronger than many think, and I think they're more committed to the ideals (or at leas the ideals of their very vocal Tea Party constituents) than most people think. We could see some cuts to SocSec. We need some cuts to SocSec and Medicare.

Part of the problem, I think, is that both sides are holding their fingers on the detonator of the same bomb and threatening to blow up the entire country. If that's the case, then it may be a hard sell on either side that the other guys (who were just repeating your threats) were the ones responsible. The President, however, now steps in as the third party on whom blame can be foisted. If that's intentional on his part, well, bully for him, he's acting like a statesman. But I don't know that we've had a proper statesman in office for damned near a century, so...

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underlankers July 11 2011, 20:32:11 UTC
We need cuts on Defense, Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid, and raising taxes at the same time. That pushes too many buttons and requires a specific bipartisan coalition that does not exist at this time when too many people are complacent that if both sides are eyeball to eyeball the other guy will blink first. Thinking Tea Party nihilists give a damn what happens to the USA as a whole is a mistake. The GOP political leadership, however, will either do what the 2% will increasingly want it to do or the GOP is dead as a political party the same way Old Labour died in Britain for a few decades.

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soliloquy76 July 11 2011, 18:40:05 UTC
You mean when the Republicans won a veto-proof majority in both chambers? Oh, wait...

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a_new_machine July 11 2011, 18:42:21 UTC
But... raising the debt ceiling is bad, right? So shouldn't you agree with this?

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