(Untitled)

[stolenokisses]

Something that really bothers me is the constant, low-level sexism and objectification that goes on daily everywhere, and how since it's not like you can police people's thoughts, you are treated as if you're over-reacting if you find it offensive and upsetting

Comments

[thisglasnost]

I don't think it is a small issue though. Fair enough, it's not rape or murder or poverty or anything like that but it's everyday sexism by men who think it's okay and totally normal to talk about women like that. And their lack of respect for us should not be seen as 'meaningless' and 'just boys being boys'. It makes me cross when people accept it because of this. I probably wouldn't have had the guts to say anything either. Like you say, they'd probably laugh, or take the piss, or possibly even criticise your own appearance depending on just how awful they were. I would be angry if i heard Luke talking about women like that and in the past i've been angry at male friends for the same reason. It's disgusting, but so hard to challenge.

[stolenokisses]

Absolutely. I don't think it's acceptable behaviour at all, but it's so ingrained that we should just let things like this slide, that it's really hard to remember that it is actually OK to be offended and angry if confronted with it! It's incredibly unfair that the reason I didn't feel like I could say anything is because all they would be likely to do would be to treat me in the same way. They go unchallenged because it feels so futile to do anything.

[goldenhair01]

I agree with this. All of it. And I don't think you over-reacted at all. There's just no way to get it right, is there? If you call them out for being misogynistic assholes, you're a crazy feminist on a warpath, and if you don't, well "why didn't you say something???"

I just ignore it most of the time and try to do my best to be in a position where I wouldn't be handicapped by it (I mean professionally). But the mere the fact that I have to make a special effort JUST because I'm a woman? Yeah.

Sadly, there's not a lot you can do. You can talk about it with your girlfriends and rant to your (luckily) nice boyfriend, but there's nothing you can do to actually make a difference. I believe only time will really change the way men think. After all, not so long ago, women weren't even allowed to vote. Hopefully, in the foreseeable future, we'll finally be men's equals.

[stolenokisses]

I believe only time will really change the way men think

I hope you're right on this one, but I'm not optimistic! There's been so many positive changes for women, but in terms of objectification etc, I think the rise in Raunch Culture of recent years has made certain issues a lot worse. Magazines with half naked women aren't regulated to the top shelf anymore and loads of young women's greatest ambition is to get their picture in one of them. On that front, men's attitudes aren't being challenged, they're actually being reinforced, and often by women themselves depressingly.

[dreamofthem]

I just want to say, I would and have had the exact same reaction. The most I've managed is a withering glance in their direction and removing myself from the situation. I don't think I could ever stand up to men like that and call them out for their degrading attitude, because I assume the reaction would be exactly as you said. In the perfect world in my head, I would say something cutting and leave, and both men would be crying themselves to sleep that night in guilt and shame. I have a feeling this wouldn't happen though. I guess I compromise with at least calling my friends out when they behave in this way.

[missbeliever]

I agree with Ella. I wouldn't dared have said anything and very few woman I know would have, barring my friend Zoe who is Women's Officer at Kent, only just 20 and the bravest feminist I know (she recently stood against the Men's Officer position which is held by a misogynistic dick and the abuse she got on twitter, IRL, facebook was actually sickening). I would have sat there, quietly seething.

This IS a big issue and you can't justify it by saying 'just lads'. Even if they were drunk in a pub, it's inexcusable. If any of my male friend acted like this I'd hit them. Hard. I'd like to think none of them would. (I was very proud to hear a male friend recently talk about a political issue then go 'But from a feminist standpoint..' <3)

Short summary: you are right, they are misogynistic bastards.

[stolenokisses]

I totally agree that even in the pub that expressing this attitude is pretty out of order, but because the issue is a lack of respect here, I think that's magnified on a packed commuter train, which is an even less appropriate forum to discuss your outdated and insulting attitude towards women!

[stolenokisses]

They got my best withering glare, but it didn't seem to be noticed!

It's depressing that this is so common, and so many people have a similar story to tell. I think as tonight_we_fly has said below, where we can try and counteract this kind of attitude is making sure that we don't let people we know get away with it when they behave this way.

Me too!

[ext_331741]

I agree 100% with your post. I would have also sat and seethed without saying anything and then beaten myself up about it. The real anger should be with those guys, and with anyone who thinks routine misogyny should be taken as a joke because, bless them, boys just aren't bright enough to work out for themselves that dehumanising 'banter' is, well dehumanising.

Re: Me too!

[stolenokisses]

Totally, it's just as insulting as men to think they should just be allowed to be morons because they don't know any better.

[bigme]

Well I agree with you Sarah. I think it's really sad. Worse when people want to label you "gay" or something for not always wanting to take part.
I don't think they'd know what a real woman was if one sat on them.

It's not uncommon at all what they were saying, but pleeeease on a packed train? Have some manners.

[stolenokisses]

Worse when people want to label you "gay" or something for not always wanting to take part.

Ah the good old twin combo of casual sexism *and* homophobia! God, some people are just such CRETINS.

[bigme]

I think it's more common than you realise, and is seen as a big part of male posturing. That is to suggest if you don't want to go round saying who you fancy you must not be into women.
I think the American military have a name for this choice of sexism or homophobia: "Don't ask, don't tell."

[bigme]

Thing is, it's not like women never do that, they're just not so blatant about it; it's what they discuss when they go to the bathroom together, or so I hear.