Comments | soupytwist: ... in which there's somewhere left in England that is not for sale

soupytwist

... in which there's somewhere left in England that is not for sale

Sep 15, 2007 19:58

Ok, so, this morning I was reading the Torygraph (it's like the Daily Mail for posh people!) and I came across this.

Just... ew. I can't even describe the levels on which I disgaree with this fucknut. I disagree that there is a "correct" way of speaking, I disagree that the "English have lost their voice" (um, all those people you mention are also ( Read more... )

knitty and witty and gay, blighty, inconvenient truth, politics, the subject of laaaanguage, docteur qui, feminist rage

Comments 28

jacinthsong September 15 2007, 20:51:05 UTC

You can nick mine. I have nothing else to say but 'heart'. xxx

soupytwist September 15 2007, 21:15:59 UTC

You are fabulous. *hearts you too*

By the way, if, next time you have time/inclination, you could send me your address, there might possibly be a care parcel coming your way. Cause you deserve it.

jacinthsong September 15 2007, 21:26:26 UTC

I'm in naaarfolk atm, and THAT reminds me I never sent the thing I found that made me think of you. (It's not very exciting)

soupytwist September 15 2007, 21:28:23 UTC

NAAARFOLK. Oh! Hi. I totally assumed you weren't, and even then forgot I could send your stuff to the college. I r smrt.

♥

mrsronweasley September 15 2007, 22:11:51 UTC

I love you. I love you a whole, whole lot. I want to live in your brain for, like, at least a day.

♥ ♥ ♥

soupytwist September 15 2007, 22:41:52 UTC

Heh, you'd be welcome to it, frankly, but ♥. :)

Sympathy for the devil's advocate penguin2 September 15 2007, 22:37:54 UTC

Um.

I read your post. Then I read the article. Then I re-read your post. Then I re-read the article. Then I found myself wondering if we'd read the same article.

I can't say that I agree with everything he said, but I know that I nearly hurled when, some twenty-odd years ago, the Beeb started using national newsreaders with regional accents. I know that when Robin of Sherwood was first a sensation, I loved Michael Praed's rich, RP-influenced voice at least as much as I found him fanciable-looking - because it was such a beautiful, aurally satisfying change from the Attack of the 50-foot Grange Hill faux-London streetskank mouthings. I know damned well that while Tony Head's Rupert Giles was surely hot for an old geezer, much of what fans find sexy about the character is his well-modulated, RP-influenced, precise and erudite speech.

As far as the like of split infinitives and ending-sentences-with-prepositions go, he can fuck himself. But I miss those old comforting oh-so-RP Beeb voices that poured into my ears like a warm furry ( ... )

Re: Sympathy for the devil's advocate soupytwist September 15 2007, 22:46:57 UTC

But he's not saying "oh, RP accents are nice and I like to listen to them" - I like them myself, especially if I've been abroad for a long time, and besides, whatever, people are allowed to like what they like. He specifically brings up that artist guy saying he liked the Scouse accent as a bad thing, like it was somehow a moral failing to fail to consider Prince Charles-like tones the be-all and end-all.

I haven't got any problem with him liking RP accents; I do have a problem with him saying that everyone else should, too, and that if they don't then they are bad people. I especially have a problem with it when the things he talks about are so culturally loaded, because even if he didn't mean to say 'let all the poor or non-white people shut-up' (and he probably didn't, at least conciously) that is the implication. You can't insistute his suggestions and not have that as a consequence.

Re: Sympathy for the devil's advocate penguin2 September 15 2007, 23:56:03 UTC

You can't insistute his suggestions and not have that as a consequence.

Yersss, and therein lies the - or a - rub. I'm working on it :-S

Accents and modes of speech always seem to be culturally loaded (insert sigh here), just as is dialect, and lingo, an' a' tha'. I've never been inclined to make the mistake of thinking that, f'rinstance, slow of speech equals slow of thinking (hey, I lived in up-country Devon for several years and in rural Irish towns for far longer than that); some of the best conversations I've ever had have been with persons having thick-as-treacle accents, and some of the most risible and content-free conversations I've ever had have been with oh-so-pretentiously-polysyllabic postmodern Macadamians. I don't give a toss about accents (and, to a large extent, dialect) in personal conversations, but yes, I do want "proper-like English" in public speakers. Unless they're Billy Connolly :P ( ... )

Re: Sympathy for the devil's advocate therealjae September 16 2007, 00:08:51 UTC

even if he didn't mean to say 'let all the poor or non-white people shut-up' (and he probably didn't, at least conciously) that is the implication. You can't insistute his suggestions and not have that as a consequence.

Yes, yes, YES.

-J

dafnagreer September 15 2007, 23:04:38 UTC

Oh what a total prick. It's actually the mix of accents on British TV that is one of the things I like. (I was actually just watching the "Marple" with Alan Davies and trying to figure out what his accent was supposed to be.)

There was actually just an article (one of several on the topic) talking about one of the reason 2/3 of the new TV series out of Hollywood this fall are starring British actors is they're actually better trained -- and it quoted one actor (now I can't remember which) saying he'd started out in life w/ a heavy Scottish accent, learned a sort of Scottish RP when he went to university, then RP at RADA and now was learning West Coast American for this new show. Meanwhile, his American co-star couldn't be bothered to switch from East Coast American to West Coast for the sake of the show.

Anyway, have some Stephen Fry, he makes all things better: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrmBcWMUvxY (skip to 4:22 for the bit about English)

soupytwist September 15 2007, 23:12:40 UTC

I love that interview! I like Jonathan Ross generally for being such a dork (he snogged Neil Gaiman!) and he is especially good with guests like Stephen. Aww. And Stephen language-dorking is always worth watching. And whole EPISODES about how great Stephen are don't suck either. :D ( ... )

therealjae September 15 2007, 23:22:51 UTC

Oh, my god, I read that column with my hand over my eyes and peeking through my fingers out of fear that the asshole who wroe it would mention a certain song. Thank god I can breathe again...

Ahem. Anyway, that was a very nice slap upside the head for the man. :-)

-J

soupytwist September 15 2007, 23:29:52 UTC

Oh my lord, thank goodness he didn't! I didn't fear it too much just because that particular kind of person (um, social kind rather than personality type) doesn't tend to listen to folk music at all, let alone the good stuff, but yeah.

*smish*

therealjae September 16 2007, 00:06:30 UTC

And on second thought, he probably wouldn't like the song anyway, because while they may both dubiously be pining after some lost England, the lost "voice" in "Roots" is decidedly un-posh. :-)

-J