The Hands of the Gods in Thick as Thieves (SPOILERS under cut)

[piartemis18]

Hello everyone! Been watching the community for several years and figured it was time to log back in to LJ and join up proper, so hi. May see some of you Salt Lake folks tomorrow night

Comments

[ibmiller]

Your last question is an interesting one. My guess is that the gods are in favor of a long term plan that is better for the world, and the Mede empire being in charge of the whole world is not the best option, even for the Mede people.

[beth_shulman]

I like this a lot; I also wonder if Kamet isn't a better representation of the Medes than the emperor and his ambitions are.

[ibmiller]

As Aravis and Emeth are better representations of Calormen than the Tisroc. :)

[beth_shulman]

YES! I love this comparison!!

[freenarnian]

Interesting thoughts! I'm still re-reading, as well, so I'll keep an eye out (er, no pun intended) for the details you've mentioned.

At times, Costis does seem semi-cognizant of the gods' "meddling," so to speak. Recall how he heard (though he didn't see) the god Eugenides speak to Gen on the parapet. I don't know if that's just something he's born with ("maybe it's Maybelline") or simply a growing sensitivity as a result of his proximity to folks like Gen, for whom the veil is thin, as Eddis puts it.

I like the idea of the god Eugenides calling in a favor. :) I was thinking of Immakuk and Ennikar as being something like patron saints of bromance, in which case the god Eugenides might've been like, "Guys, this is totally your department."

By the by, how are people pronouncing their names? My best guess is "I'm a cook" for Immakuk and "In a car" for Ennikar.

[piartemis18]

Yeah I went into the book assuming Costis believes in godly intervention due to his experience with Eugenides (the god) in KoA, but I do have to wonder if Immakuk and Ennikar were interacting with him besides what Kamet saw, and if he would have additional insights for that.

I've been pronouncing the names the same way. Sometimes I say "imm a cook" instead of "I'm a cook" but no real preference.

[freenarnian]

I REALLY want to know what was going through Costis's mind in the well. Aside from trying to get out, and wondering where Kamet was. (Does Kamet ever admit to him that his first instinct was to run? For all Costis knew, Kamet could have been dead, or captured, or hiding...)

I wonder if Costis had any thoughts along the lines of, "Well, it's true I haven't died from falling... Does the God of Thieves make any promises as to climbing out again, or...?" He may want to discuss the fine print with Gen.

[ninedaysaqueen]

Well, it said he sounded peeved, so we know he was peeved. XD

It was actually sensible to wait till nightfall to go back for him. I assumed Costis thought Kamet was bidding his time if he'd escaped or was captured by bounty hunters and being taken back to the emperor's palace.

I'm sure Costis had some heroic plan to scale the well and go rescue him! He just hadn't thought of it yet... XD

I love that Kamet wants to either sensibly run away from danger or talk his way out. Meanwhile, Costis just wants to fight everyone and everything.

[agh_4]

Yes! Thanks for making a post on this topic! The thing with the splinter made me yell when I reread it. Also, in this parallel to the underworld story, the miller's dog is Unse-sek, right? (Unse-sek to Costis, Unse-sek squared to the rodents)

I agree that the farmer they meet on the road is Immakuk. I also ended up thinking that he (as the wine merchant) is the one who sets fire to their boat on the river. His and Ennikar's mission seems to be to keep Kamet and Costis together, which usually ends up meaning preventing Kamet from taking off on his own (both as he had planned on the river and in Sukir, and when he believes Costis dead in the well).

So, what they do is definitely helps Gen's machinations, and therefore benefits the old gods of the little peninsula, but I ... don't think I'm ready to say that Immakuk and Ennikar are getting involved for that reason. Because the implications of that would be HUGE! Mede gods/heroes (although maybe, since their stories may predate the empire, they don't have an attachment to the Medes) serving

[piartemis18]

I thought the Mede ambassador in Attolia said something about how it was the Mede that set fire to all the riverboats looking for Kamet. But...that was near the end of the book, which meant it was late at night and my reading comprehension was not the greatest then. I like the idea of Immakuk doing it because it was the best way to keep Kamet and Costis together

[freenarnian]

I'm not sure we'll ever know exactly what the ultimate intentions of the gods are here, any more than the characters do. Remember what happened when Gen tried to demand answers at the end of QoA.

[agh_4]

:o oh dear, maybe we should be talking about something else.

So. The weather and the harvest, amirite?

[savithny]

At first I thought the wine merchant was an agent of Eugenides ... until the next one-eyed man showed up and wound up influencing where they went.

I was also definitely wondering why the gods of the Medes would be interfering in the acts of humans in order to prevent their own leaders from expanding the Empire ... although it could be argued that in expanding the Empire they move further and further away from being the kind of people their gods want them to be?

I think that Immakuk and Ennikar weren't just working to keep Kemet and Costis together though - it wasn't just about keeping them safe, it was actually about keeping them *on the road*. It seems like they could have helped by shortening the journey, but Kamet *needed* the journey to become the person he is at the end.

The Mede gods have plans for Kamet, it appears...

[kitsune_rains]

I thought the wine merchant was an agent of Eugenides all the way until Costis called him by name. Costis got at a glance what I was missing! Costis!

(He's grown so much, I love him.)

I like the interpretation about keeping them on the road! I wasn't thinking of it like that! Immakuk or Ennikar might have been able to make their paths cross with another Attolian's WAY sooner than they did. But if Kamet had been forced to choose at almost any point before Costis' fall/illness, I expect he would have gotten much more creative in escaping...

[frosted_feather]

I like how I was reading one of the stories of Immakuk and Ennikar as fairy tale until I remembered, "Wait, the gods in the other stories were real, so probably these are too!" It was a big revelation because the culture (poetry) was so different that I went right back to the default of assuming they were myths.

Another thing I love about these books is that the gods are real, though most people no longer believe and only some people see them. I shall forever remember that first shock upon reading The Thief in the scene where Gen is in the temple, leaning toward the statute holding Hephestia's Gift, and then realizing that the statue is breathing! Still gives me chills.

And makes me contemplate the supernatural in our own world.

[beth_shulman]

I really, really liked how different the poetry was!

(...It reminded me, stylistically, of Gail Carson Levine's Two Princesses of Bamarre. I DON'T KNOW.)

That scene in TT is SO CREEPY and SO GREAT.

[ninedaysaqueen]

The poetry was more Middle Eastern while the Little Peninsula's myths have always felt very Greek/Roman to me. The differences in literature really help establish the tone of these two very different cultures.

[freenarnian]

“We might someday attain a relationship of mutual respect,” [the Magus] said softly.

First, I thought, I will see gods walking the earth.

Oooh, Gen! XD