The Hands of the Gods in Thick as Thieves (SPOILERS under cut)

[piartemis18]

Hello everyone! Been watching the community for several years and figured it was time to log back in to LJ and join up proper, so hi. May see some of you Salt Lake folks tomorrow night

Comments

[agh_4]

Yes! Thanks for making a post on this topic! The thing with the splinter made me yell when I reread it. Also, in this parallel to the underworld story, the miller's dog is Unse-sek, right? (Unse-sek to Costis, Unse-sek squared to the rodents)

I agree that the farmer they meet on the road is Immakuk. I also ended up thinking that he (as the wine merchant) is the one who sets fire to their boat on the river. His and Ennikar's mission seems to be to keep Kamet and Costis together, which usually ends up meaning preventing Kamet from taking off on his own (both as he had planned on the river and in Sukir, and when he believes Costis dead in the well).

So, what they do is definitely helps Gen's machinations, and therefore benefits the old gods of the little peninsula, but I ... don't think I'm ready to say that Immakuk and Ennikar are getting involved for that reason. Because the implications of that would be HUGE! Mede gods/heroes (although maybe, since their stories may predate the empire, they don't have an attachment to the Medes) serving the purpose of the unified Eddis, Attolia, and Sounis to the detriment of the empire pulls the conflict away from politics and into a morality where the empire is so bad that it's own gods answer to the gods of its "insignificant" enemy to aid its downfall. (This is getting dramatic. Does what I'm getting at make sense to anyone else?)

If it's not that, then, I suppose that Immakuk and Ennikar just turn up nudge along relationships that parallel theirs?

Oh. And I think it's cool that Kamet and Costis both pray to goddesses of mercy!

(I hope this makes sense -- I'm typing it very hurriedly. I just think that the god stuff in this book functions differently than in the others, and I'm looking forward to having more discussion about this. And! I still have a lot of comments from the other threads to read, so in sorry if some of this is redundant.)

[piartemis18]

I thought the Mede ambassador in Attolia said something about how it was the Mede that set fire to all the riverboats looking for Kamet. But...that was near the end of the book, which meant it was late at night and my reading comprehension was not the greatest then. I like the idea of Immakuk doing it because it was the best way to keep Kamet and Costis together.

I did not even think about the dog and Unse-Sek parallel! That is awesome.

Your comment about Immakuk and Ennikar predating the empire is a good one, and may help when trying to figure out their motivations. I can't decide if I want them to be plotting the overthrow of the Mede or just enjoy a good bromance.

It kind of seems to me that Costis and Kamet had some discussions about godly appearances offline, because of the way Kamet looks around the dock for them to appear. But also the time when they would've had that discussion it seems they weren't speaking, so maybe not. I just think I missed the part where Kamet switches from "Yeah that guy looks a little like the Ennikar actor but son you're feverish" to "These guys could show up on the docks with us at any time."

[freenarnian]

I'm not sure we'll ever know exactly what the ultimate intentions of the gods are here, any more than the characters do. Remember what happened when Gen tried to demand answers at the end of QoA.

[agh_4]

:o oh dear, maybe we should be talking about something else.

So. The weather and the harvest, amirite?

[an_english_girl]

Yeah ... window glass is expensive, you know ;P

[freenarnian]

LOL!

(That remains one of my favorite scenes in the series, ftr. Gen's emotions are so raw and the reaction of the gods so awe-inspiring. Things Get Real.)

[agh_4]

Yes! It's so intense to reread, every time.

[agh_4]

Yeah, you're right, it is a bit of a leap for Kamet.... He does seem to be getting close to the truth when he asks Gen about the wine merchant, and, by the time they leave Attolia, he's already begun his written account, so maybe, with that reflection, he changes his opinion on his own.

[beth_shulman]

I thought the Mede ambassador in Attolia said something about how it was the Mede that set fire to all the riverboats looking for Kamet.

Yeah, that's how I read it, too. It was something like "You must have been on one of the boats that burned before we could search it."

- but now I'm thinking that doesn't necessarily mean they burned the boats. Maybe they were searching all the boats methodically and the fire messed with their plans.

[drashizu]

That was how I read it - the fire started by accident (I like the Immakuk theory) and hindered rather than helped the Medes.

[agh_4]

That's how I interpreted Melheret's comment, too, although I'll have to look at it again soon. Kamet avoids the ~mystery merchant~ so there's no evidence that the other passenger is not Immakuk, since Immakuk shows up at the inn (weird that a god/hero would bother traveling by boat, but hey, what do I know?).

[aelfequeen]

Any chance Costis could have burned it, realizing somehow that the Mede were going to search the ship they were on?

I suspected that from this passage on p55:

"I'm sorry about the captain's ship," he [Costis] said, watching the burning boat, and if he didn't sound very sorry, it was the only sign of how much he'd hated being cooped up in the tiny cabin.

[agh_4]

I always assumed Costis had set the fire.

--checkers, who is not logged in

[agh_4]

WHOA

that's interesting! o.O

[beth_shulman]

So, what they do is definitely helps Gen's machinations, and therefore benefits the old gods of the little peninsula, but I ... don't think I'm ready to say that Immakuk and Ennikar are getting involved for that reason. Because the implications of that would be HUGE!

Somehow this reminded me of the end of QoA, when the goddess asks Gen, "Would you have your arm back? ...And see Attolia lost to the Mede?" Maybe the gods aren't looking out for their own countries' interests (they betrayed Gen, right?) but for the least loss of life?

Or maybe the theme of gods' betrayal is continuing.

I do like your point about them predating the empire! That makes sense to me!

One last thing - I guess I don't see the gods' presence here as different! See: QoA, "go to bed," and also even Knife Dance, where

SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER

Eugenides the god shows up because the knife dance isn't being done correctly! Over the course of the series, the veil has been getting consistently thinner.

[agh_4]

Ah! Knife Dance was so good!

You're right -- there's a range of ways the gods are represented, and the veil does seem to be getting thinner. I guess I was surprised that I+E had such a big presence in the story while not strictly being gods. The way they appeared as somewhat-everyday people without reducing mortal concerns to terrifying insignificance makes me see them as more like Moira, although I suppose they are their own messengers.