On Harlan

[skzbrust]

Apparently, Harlan Ellison did a Bad Thing at Worldcon and fandom has taken him to task for it, as is proper. Those who want the details can find them in PNH's livejournal. He has apologized. Some don't feel the apology sincere, some do

Comments

[kinfae]

Julia Vinograd, speaking of Ginsberg in her poem of the same name, wrote something that I immediately thought of when this whole incident began.
"No blame. Anyone who wrote Howl and Kaddish
earned the right to make any possible mistake
for the rest of his life."

This is how I think of Harlan Ellison. He's a great man, and yes, he has shown himself willing to risk for very many things. Someone said above that he hasn't done it in her lifetime: I think that's a foolish argument, as though anything we personally did not witness is not real. Harlan is a great man who may or may not have made a mistake. I'm a woman, and I don't find the need to shout his evil to the rooftops.

It was public, it was brief: it may have been in poor taste, but it does /not/ deserve this much condemnation. I think fandom needs to step back and take a few breaths.

[pnh]

What a lot of people in this thread, Steve Brust and Emma Bull included, don't seem to grasp is that this isn't primarily a chapter in the Epic of Harlan Ellison.

It's a chapter in the generational development of fandom. This incident is where a whole bunch of people, mostly younger than 40, are all saying "we don't want to watch SF personalities behave like this in public any more, and we don't intend to further indulge it. Evidently people older than us thought it was cute. We don't think it's cute."

It's not really all about Harlan Ellison. It's about changing standards, and articulating those changing standards.

[tmixtli]

That's it! I couldn't put my finger on it before. We are certainly willing to read Ellison Wonderland, but no longer interested in seeing him in person. My wife was pretty succinct last night when she said, "So what? Harlan Ellison is a jerk, and I don't seek him out." Mr. Brust respects him for standing on certain principles, e.g. intellectual property rights, and I understand that. I find Ellison's sometimes bizarre experimental writing style fascinating, and his themes of human dignity and individual liberty rather heavy-handed but worthwhile. On the other hand, he is among a class of disrespectful professionals who I do not feel merit my time outside their novels, films, etc.
Tim Powers and David Brin, by the way, are totally decent human beings whom I quite like on a personal basis. I don't know whether it is generational or simply a difference of experience; i.e., they had comfortable youths and first approached writing as a hobby rather than a profession, but their respect for fans does not seem forced, and I was

[skzbrust]

Now here is a new proposition, and one I haven't encountered before: the notion that David Brin is a totally decent human being. I'll have to give that some thought. ;-)

Meanwhile, thanks for the kind words.

[redhawknflight]

"I wish we had a few hundred thousand more Steven Brusts in the world. It would be a better place" I'll second that....he's a great person and a talented write, a rare combination!

[sunlessnick]

Julia Vinograd, speaking of Ginsberg in her poem of the same name, wrote something that I immediately thought of when this whole incident began.
"No blame. Anyone who wrote Howl and Kaddish
earned the right to make any possible mistake
for the rest of his life."

This is how I think of Harlan Ellison.

Shouldn't that also work in reverse though? If a perpetrator can be legendary enough for special treatment, can't the target? If Harlan Ellison is that great, then so is Connie Willis - if "Let it go, it's Harlan Ellison" is valid, then so is "You don't do that to Connie Willis."

My own position is that you don't do that to anyone, but you can't open the greatness door for him without opening it for her too.

[kinfae]

I can understand that thinking, and it is logical. She, however, was never my hero in the same way. While someone else can certainly say 'You don't do that to Connie Willis', it's not something I would say.