Heroes and Fate

[sistermagpie]

I was thinking about Star Wars this morning. Recently I read a conversation where a number of people said, "I couldn't care less about Han Solo." Now, I happen to love Han, but I didn't find this a shocking confession, especially given the way they explained it. They liked the Skywalkers because it was their story. I had to agree. While I love

Comments

*can't delay gratification*

[tinderblast]

I'm only halfway through reading, but when I got to your point about Artoo leaning forward like the little page to the queen, I had to respond instantly and say how much I'm loffing this post, and you :D

Re: *can't delay gratification*

[sistermagpie]

Hee! Thank you! I love Artoo so much in that moment!!

Re: *can't delay gratification*

[tinderblast]

Ooops, sorry, I meant to go back and write a big response and then got distracted. I'll do it when I'm not mega tired and incoherent ...

[megstuff]

This sets him apart from other characters not just because he isn't immediately committed to destroying the Empire but because he doesn't have to be. The Alliance would miss him if he left, but it's always understood that he could leave, might leave, and they'd muddle on without him if he did.

For instance, to me this is the great thing about Frodo as a character, that it really is a struggle for him to enslave himself to a cause and agree to carry this burden. Before that he's arranged his life just as he likes it, where he's free to wander and read, and only sees people when he wants to see them.

Sorry to quote at such length, but these lines really resonate with me as did something you said a month or so ago:

My own motivations are usually pretty selfish--when I do the right thing it's more often because I can't find any other way to keep myself from being in the wrong, rather than being passionately enthusiastic about doing something right, if that makes sense. Han Solo was a truly a revelation to me - the first time I

[sistermagpie]

Han sort of showed me I could choose to be Heroic without being Good.

Wow-I never thought of those two thoughts of mine going together but you're right. And I totally identify with your own pov on that. I think I just know that I don't have the kind of drive that many of those other heroes have to get involved and get things done. I almost need to feel like I'd be letting people down by not acting. I might like to fantasize about being a hero, but I know too well I wouldn't be one. I feel like Frodo is kind of similar that way. We know he loved Bilbo's stories about heroism, but I think he probably didn't identify with them as something he could actually do.

I had never thought of Frodo in that way, though; I think you may have just changed my whole relationship to LotR.

*Feels powerful* :-D

[butterfly]

The way I think of the Force is that it offers up the choices for people to make. Obi-Wan says that he doesn't believe in luck or in coincidence, but does that mean that he thinks that the Jedi Order and the Republic were doomed to fail? I think that it was doomed to come to the fork in the road, and then everyone involved made choices that caused it to fall.

There was no reason in the world as to why Obi-Wan Kenobi should have plucked 'Tattooine' out as the world that they should refuel on. It can't be the only world that is small and out of the way. But it is the only one with Anakin Skywalker on it, so when someone sensitive to the tides of the Force is nearby, it makes sense that he'd be drawn to that planet.

[sistermagpie]

I had even totally forgotten Obi-Wan says he doesn't believe in luck--ha, how could I do that? I was thinking of Han saying he didn't think there was any big force controlling everything--and yet that's right after Han calls Luke's being able to hit something "luck." But ultimately neither of them believe in fate. After RotS Obi-Wan is probably even more resistant to that sort of thinking. He had something he thought Anakin was "supposed to" do (destroy the Sith), and he did something else (join them). But that leads him to potentially give up hope for Anakin when he shouldn't, just because it didn't happen the way he thought it was supposed to.

I see the Force working the way you described it too, though. That it is able to exert an influence on things, calling like to like and things like that. So it's not pure coincidence, but it's not puppet strings either.

[sistermagpie]

Or maybe I just always feel like fate (were it to exist) is there to be struggled against.

I think that's really part of the appeal of the fated hero, that, as you said, shit keeps happening to them. That's a lot of the way life is, really. So you can see why it's compelling to watch somebody literally struggle against fate. That's also why, I think, it always goes so well when someone is in that role and gets kind of, for lack of a better word, bratty. Because they're constantly raging against all these expectations. There's only a couple of ways to react to that many expectations--be crushed or be angry. It's like fighting for you individuality. You almost have to be rebellious just to keep your sense of self.

I think it's most heroic to do things, even if you know you -have- to do them, for your own reasons rather than the ones given to you. So perhaps in a way Luke went through all that stuff just to realize why -he- wanted to do what he was doing, sort of like Harry is trying to figure out for himself, too. That's so

[dotsomething]

That's a great analysis of the role Han and R2 play in Star Wars

[sistermagpie]

In The Dark is Rising series, my favorites were the three Drew children--the "three from the track." Will is a fantastic character and I adore him, but the idea that perfectly *ordinary* children could have an important role always fascinated me and I rooted for them more.

And I love the way they *do* have an important influence. Like there's that great moment when the Greenwitch makes a reference to "the child" and Will instinctively thinks it's him because he's used to be "the child" in the story. I think Merriman sort of laughs at him because of course it's really Jane, who is also the one the Lady comes to to deliver her message. Will is important but he's definitely not the center of the universe. Many of the really important things that turn the tide happen because of what people do.

As for Han, after seeing Sith, one point my brain kept catching on was how Han dropped into the Skywalker family saga stew, and how he was exactly what that family's next generation needed. Yes--I think I thought that too when Obi-Wan makes

[musesfool]

I just loved Xander's speech to Dawn about the "ordinary" people and the role they play for the heroes

Yes. And along with his speech to Buffy in Freshman, is one of the reasons he's my favorite BtVS character. He has no superpowers and no destiny, but he's consistently out there fighting because he believes it's necessary, and couldn't live with himself if he weren't.

I hope someone gives Ron that kind of validation, that just because he's not the Boy Who Lived or the cleverest witch in his year, that he's not worthy of being involved in the fight against Voldemort.

[sistermagpie]

I love Ron because of that.:-) Sometimes being the ordinary one can give you a better perspective, really.