The Fall of the House of ______

[sistermagpie]

This thread turned out to be so interesting, it's gotten me thinking even more about incest in literature and what it stands for. Unfortunately I really haven't read any lit crit on the subject. I have a feeling I'll be surfing around today looking for some. The weird thing, too, is that the subject seems to tie in with other recent subjects on

Comments

[tiferet]

WTF?

You can argue whether some of Hermione's actions denote attraction to Ron or not, but what in the world makes you think she's growing to fit the Weasley mold?

[sistermagpie]

Sorry-I should edit that. I was thinking of how Hermione is shown as being part of the wizarding world as opposed to the Muggle one, so that when she's at The Burrow she's not introducing a foreign culture but conforming into the culture she lives now. Hermione is one of the few Muggleborns we see questioning Wizard culture, in fact, but her SPEW campaign isn't usually shown as a Muggleborn vs. Wizard topic, since the other Muggleborns don't care about it either.

circling back to racism

[shusu]

Something of this pinged from a few entries back, I can't remember which. Possibly the 'Mudblood' idea. Going into the mindset of a Pureblood (Slytherin) I was struck by the force of my character's fear/anger about the Muggles, because if they discovered the WW, it would all be over. All the strange peculiarities, all the rich family history, all the magic. And logically the biggest source of leaks are from the mixed families. They really expect all the Finnegans and Grangers to keep this huge secret and not sell it off to a tabloid before you can bring in the Memory Charm squad? Or that the Muggle PM would continue to recognize the legitimacy of the MoM? So I think with the close of the WW to outsiders, and wizards started raising their families away from the Muggles, Salazar's original ideals started mixing with Pureblood preservation. A bill for Muggle Hunting! And in many of the characters' lifetimes

oops forgot.

[shusu]

^ Pureblood cultural preservation

Re: oops forgot.

[sistermagpie]

In our game we Slytherins always used to complain that the Gryffs didn't understand the importance of blood.Right--and they don't! The funny thing about the Weasleys also, is that they are very pro-Muggle, but as people have pointed out, they are pro-Muggle from a distance. Arthur basically does want to control Muggles. He'll protect them, but through the use of memory charms etc., which is incredibly intrusive. In fact that seems to be something he spends a lot more time doing than the Malfoys do. So while the Malfoys are the ones who are on the surface more racist and afraid of Muggles, Arthur is the one interfering with them more. The DEs at the WW terrorize Muggles in a way Arthur wouldn't, but in a way the DE torment is more honest. Arthur, by contrast, would approach a Muggle in a friendly way, but then mess with their mind out of kindness--though the kindness is really to his own people. *They* don't want to be discovered, so Muggles must be interfered with

Re: oops forgot.

[shusu]

IIRC, the only real explanation was Hagrid's in SS. And I don't have salt blocks that big *g* Come to think of it, the only official link we heard about was when Sirius was on the loose and the Muggle agencies were put on the alert too. No details, though, so.... could they have befuddled the Muggle PM to put out the alert? I'll have to reread.

[cesperanza]

This is all really interesting stuff, the way you're relating the Gothic to incest and Houses and History--(and of course, the gothic always WAS about a house; the house itself, with its nooks and crannies, was argued to be a representation of the mind; a house divided from itself; and with its garretts and attics with kids in them, it seems to me that the Weasley house isn't as different from Dracula's castle or the Malfoy estate as it might seem on first glance. It's a similar psychological layout

[sistermagpie]

Oh don't apologize, I totally agree. And I definitely thought of the "tourist attraction" idea when it came to Americans because you're absolutely right. There are many institutions that inspire affection because they are traditional that nobody should have to live with. That's sometimes a hard thing to have to give up--like I remember on The Real World (yes, I watch TRW--I am ashamed) where they went to Africa and a character was saying it was a shame the people who lived as hunters' world was disappearing. But another person said, correctly, that we had to also accept that if these people wanted to live with Western conveniences we couldn't expect them to live traditionally just so that we could enjoy them. It's the same thing with any number of outdated political ideas. In fact, the whole world of HP is a bit of throwback that way, with its idealized presentation of boarding school life

[cesperanza]

Right, yes, but if it's a ramshackly farmhouse--which I think you're right; the Weasleys strike me as poor Irish farmers--then it is still the center of a kind of extended community. A farm is an economic institution as much as a manor house is--(in reality, not in the American imagination where it's just a really large suburban house; imexperience, the middle class person forgets the lack of privacy of the manor, because it's not a home it's a place of employment for a on of people)--and the university; also a community, also a place of employment. So JKR seems to be reaching for SOMETHING that's both pre-and-post middle class work-home, production-consumption, urban-suburban capitalism--but in doing so, she's raised the ghosts, so to speak, of aristocracy and race war and yes, yes, you're totally right, all the OTHER problems of community (and I'm with you; I think people fetishize community without understanding that on the flip side of support are limits/restraints.

[sistermagpie]

I agree. This reminds me of that old John Mellencamp song "Small Town." I remember when that used to play on the radio everytime he sang the line about how a small town "let you be just what you want to be," I thought um, no it doesn't, really. At least that's not something for which small towns are known. That's often what people go to cities for!

[ex_lonicera600]

I *am* disturbed at the idea of Sirius wanting to toss out everything in his house. The whole "cleaning" aspect of OotP seemed aggressive to me, knowing that we're not just getting rid of cobwebs but the things important to the family Sirius hated, mostly lumped together as "dark artifacts."

Ack! I'm glad you were feeling that, too. I found myself moaning loudly when reading that scene. Even if all that stuff really WERE Dark Arts' artefacts, surely they would do no harm just being enclosed in a display case? The very idea of destroying ones family's past by throwing out all those mementi makes me hurt. And then, who knows, there may come a time when you'll be real glad to have a nose-biting snuffbox...

Another point that disturbed me was that boggart. OK, OK, no one knows what they're good for, but he had lived in that cabinet ... how long? Has he no right to a home? Surely you can sacrifice one cabinet to a homeless creature that does no harm?

Draco (the character so many people see as unimportant) seems to be the end of the

[sistermagpie]

The very idea of destroying ones family's past by throwing out all those mementi makes me hurt.

Exactly! It's your family history--even if it's bad, it's still your family. There's no reason to deny it. It drives me crazy whenever I see anything like that. The thing is, even people who hate a lot of these old institutions surely take pride in their own history. It's part of what makes us different and special.

And it would bother me as well to see them reduced to poverty and unimportance. Those creatures are born and bred to be aristocratic and their existence makes the world a more colourful place.
Me too. Yes. I mean, of course I think wealthier people should contribute to the care of people who have less so that everyone has the basics of care. But I don't resent people for hitting it big and being fabulously wealthy. I like having that possibility there even if I don't ever live it myself. I don't think aristocrats are better than I am, but I like having them in the world. There's a reason why during the depression

[sistermagpie]

Thanks! Yeah, it's kind of strange that people can act like prejudice against Muggles is just a problem with superficial differences when the entire Wizarding World *hides* from Muggles and spends their time memory charming them, etc.