The Fall of the House of ______

[sistermagpie]

This thread turned out to be so interesting, it's gotten me thinking even more about incest in literature and what it stands for. Unfortunately I really haven't read any lit crit on the subject. I have a feeling I'll be surfing around today looking for some. The weird thing, too, is that the subject seems to tie in with other recent subjects on

Comments

[cesperanza]

This is all really interesting stuff, the way you're relating the Gothic to incest and Houses and History--(and of course, the gothic always WAS about a house; the house itself, with its nooks and crannies, was argued to be a representation of the mind; a house divided from itself; and with its garretts and attics with kids in them, it seems to me that the Weasley house isn't as different from Dracula's castle or the Malfoy estate as it might seem on first glance. It's a similar psychological layout.)

But it also strikes me that you're approaching the House issue as an academic, and academics are in this sense all conservatives--literally, we're worried about the history, the artifacts, the culture, etc. It strikes me that many people would be a great deal LESS worried, the way the average Brit is much more inclined to abandon the whole monarchy than the average American, who wants it as a tourist attraction but not to have to actually LIVE with. I mean, it wouldn't be unreasonable to be anti-House, period--including Hogwarts and its houses--on egalitarian grounds. But I'm with Andrew Blake when he says that Rowling seems, interestingly, more concerned about the tyranny of the middle-class suburbs. I think JKR wants to recouperate some institutions--public university, for one (in the American sense of public, because Hogwarts doesn't seem to be fee-paying)--and strong extended family communities of the kind that the suburbs destroyed (by pulling families out of urban areas and dispersing them, cf Wilmot and Young.)

In other words, race war aside, she seems to prefer the large, subdivided houses of the rich or poor to the 2 bedroom bungalows with all mod cons.

In face, I'll bet that she didn't even plan it in advance--I bet the theme of the race war suggested itself to her once she realized the extent to which she was investing the narrative in these classic Imperial spaces...

Hmm. (Sorry, must think more.. Just in my field, theatre, geography is destiny; tell me what your set looks like, and I'll tell you who you are...)

[sistermagpie]

Oh don't apologize, I totally agree. And I definitely thought of the "tourist attraction" idea when it came to Americans because you're absolutely right. There are many institutions that inspire affection because they are traditional that nobody should have to live with. That's sometimes a hard thing to have to give up--like I remember on The Real World (yes, I watch TRW--I am ashamed) where they went to Africa and a character was saying it was a shame the people who lived as hunters' world was disappearing. But another person said, correctly, that we had to also accept that if these people wanted to live with Western conveniences we couldn't expect them to live traditionally just so that we could enjoy them. It's the same thing with any number of outdated political ideas. In fact, the whole world of HP is a bit of throwback that way, with its idealized presentation of boarding school life.

I think you're right in saying that JKR is clearly looking for an alternative to the kind of world the Dursleys live in. That does, though, naturally bring in the good and the bad. Because just as that sort of thing can seem a bad thing to those of us who live in it, so can an extended family be stifling to someone who lives in that world. I know people who have absolutely wanted to escape their family--and the Weasleys themselves show some of the problems with that type of thing. I remember Julie Walters on the CoS DVD describing the Burrow as the house everyone would want to live in and I thought she was crazy!

and with its garretts and attics with kids in them, it seems to me that the Weasley house isn't as different from Dracula's castle or the Malfoy estate as it might seem on first glance. It's a similar psychological layout.)

Yes! First, I so love the whole idea of the house as the mind--that concept kind of dominates my own dream life so it makes all too muc sense to me. We've never been to the Malfoy house (though JKR said she wished she could have included the scene there to show the contrast to the Dursleys), but I seem to remember the Burrow described as looking so ramshackle as to be held up by magic which, as Harry reminded himself, it probably was. Also, wasn't it even compared to a pigsty, like that it looked like it had once been one? It sort of suggests a healthy connection to farming and echoes something Malfoy himself would say to insult it. (And I believe swineherds have an association with wizards in Celtic mythology.) It's certainly been built to represent the family that lives there, like the Black house and presumably the Manor.

[cesperanza]

Right, yes, but if it's a ramshackly farmhouse--which I think you're right; the Weasleys strike me as poor Irish farmers--then it is still the center of a kind of extended community. A farm is an economic institution as much as a manor house is--(in reality, not in the American imagination where it's just a really large suburban house; imexperience, the middle class person forgets the lack of privacy of the manor, because it's not a home it's a place of employment for a on of people)--and the university; also a community, also a place of employment. So JKR seems to be reaching for SOMETHING that's both pre-and-post middle class work-home, production-consumption, urban-suburban capitalism--but in doing so, she's raised the ghosts, so to speak, of aristocracy and race war and yes, yes, you're totally right, all the OTHER problems of community (and I'm with you; I think people fetishize community without understanding that on the flip side of support are limits/restraints.

[sistermagpie]

I agree. This reminds me of that old John Mellencamp song "Small Town." I remember when that used to play on the radio everytime he sang the line about how a small town "let you be just what you want to be," I thought um, no it doesn't, really. At least that's not something for which small towns are known. That's often what people go to cities for!

[ceris]

I don't think the average Brit (speaking as one) would abandon the Monarchy in favour of a Republic. We're just not that aware of them as an intitution, that's all. We take them for granted, we moan about them, but in general, we wouldn't be rid of them. They're part and parcel of our traditions (what there is left of them).

Hogwarts doesn't seem to be fee-paying but it's still elitist in that only wizards/witches can go there, so it's still very much public school in the old traditional sense.

I think JKR did this very deliberately to point up the elitist elements of our British society (as well as showing up the hideous middle class snobbery), and also to hark back to the 'good old days' of British society - powerful aristocracy instead of the figureheads they are now, jolly japes in public school, etc, when if fact, many people who've been to such schools (including our Royals) absolutely hated them, and the bullying etc etc that used to be almost intitutionalised.

[sistermagpie]

Hogwarts doesn't seem to be fee-paying but it's still elitist in that only wizards/witches can go there, so it's still very much public school in the old traditional sense.

And doesn't Hagrid say something about Harry's name being "down for Hogwarts" when he was a baby, suggesting the type of schools that parents have to sign their children up for years in advance? It's an interesting question in itself, because you wonder if everyone in the entire WW is supposed to have gone to exactly this type of school. Even if everyone does go there, it's obviously based on what we'd consider an exclusive school. I believe Justin F-F says that had he not gotten his letter he'd have gone to Eton.

[ceris]

Yes, Hagrid does say something about that, and it reinforces the elitist tradtion of such schools. I do wonder if all wizards go to such schools or if some slip through the net, or if the wizards who go to places like Hogwarts are the ones who have 'potential' of some kind. I can't remember JKR saying anything like that. And yes, of course you'd expect someone with a name like Justin Finch-Fletchly (?spelling) to go to Eton or somesuch school - that's playing with name stereotypes :-)